Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Cut the Tie. I'm your host, Thomas Helfrich. I'm on the mission to cut the tie to whatever's holding you back. I want to help you do this so you can find success in a way that you've defined that success for yourself. And today I'm joined by Jason Greer. Jason, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:14

I'm doing great.

Speaker 1: 0:15

Appreciate the time. I'm very grateful the time our guests give us to come on here. I know they're busy. Most times are successful no, they're often successful and run stuff. So I really appreciate you jumping in here. Why don't you start with who you are and what you do?

Speaker 2: 0:30

Yeah, my name is Jason Greer. I co-own a company called Peel Business Design and we believe that companies and business deserves design, and so we work with them to align their strategy to their metrics, to their process and make sure they're doing a great work.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Competitive space, for sure. Uh, what makes you guys different?

Speaker 2: 0:54

Um, you know, in a lot of ways. Uh, a lot of companies will come in with a big slide deck and say this is how we do it. Um, they are the hammer and they look for the nails to pound into the ground. Uh, we don't come at it that way. We say this is how we do it. They are the hammer and they look for the nails to pound into the ground. We don't come at it that way. We say this is a big problem. We recognize every big problem deserves attention and our job is to take that big problem and to break it into small problems and bring the right facilities and the right people to solve those.

Speaker 1: 1:23

I like that. Listen, I usually do the shameless plug at the end. As you're listening to Jason here and you want to stalk him while he's talking, just go to peelbusinessdesigncom P-E-E-L businessdesigncom and hit LinkedIn, all the things for him that way. If you want to stalk him, here's what he is, why he's talking.

Speaker 2: 1:50

So we're going to go pre-stalk mode for any of the guests. Jason, let's start with one specific thing, which is how you define success. You know, for success for me and it's changed over the years, and I would say even in the last two years for me, success is running a business where I come home at the end of every night and say that was awesome, right, Like I got to be my true self, Um, and I find I'm more successful, uh, in a tangible way that way as well, Um, but more than anything, it's just how do you live your life and enjoy every day?

Speaker 1: 2:19

Yeah, I mean, and that's does change over time. You know, like a lot of times for people, sometimes it starts off as money, money, money. Other time it's, you know you get later in life, it's enjoyment with family, or it's mentoring, or it's it's, it's leave behind legacy, and I love that you're, you know you're adopting it and it's changed and it's probably going to change again. So good for you In your own journey. Though talk about your journey a little bit, and what. What was the biggest tie you've had to cut or or maybe you're currently doing it to accomplish that success you just defined.

Speaker 2: 2:49

Yeah, you know, I grew up in a, like a small town, midwest world, um, and if there's anything in those cultures, it is that, um, you learn your place and you learn where you're supposed to be and you're told where to be, um, and so there's a lot of guilt, fear and shame that kind of comes with that whole culture, and I recognized just a few years ago that how much fear and guilt and shame I was living under and started to look at every situation I was in to see if I could do it better, and getting back to that point of loving my life every day.

Speaker 1: 3:28

That's a big realization to come to, of knowing that I needed to stop feeling something that I felt in childhood. It plagues all of us. As a Midwest kid, mine's different, but I know what you're talking about. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, illinois, and then, in your journey though, you had a moment, I'm sure, where you realized it. Do you remember that moment?

Speaker 2: 3:48

Oh, definitely, uh, I uh was uh sitting in my car reading a book, uh, about a lady whose life didn't turn out the way she wanted it to, and it was this epiphany of like, if I continue on this path, um, I'm going to allow everybody's expectations of me to find what my life is, and so that was kind of my defining moment question first is because someone else had been defining that for you for a very long time and and and.

Speaker 1: 4:27

honestly, it's okay that people are influencing you to kind of go the right direction, to say, hey, you know, success looks more like this than robbing a bank or like whatever it is right, or drugs and this stuff. So it's, it's done out of love. But at some point, if you don't take over that dream and that success story, you become resentful of it. And you did that. That's my journey. I mean, I'm self-projecting it, but I see this a lot. Would you feel that's correct in describing like I need it. It's mine.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I have so many mentors in life and I try to find them everywhere I go, so it's not that I'm trying to do this on my own. But what you have to recognize is that those mentors also have baggage, and you have to recognize the baggage versus the wisdom and what they're bringing to the table.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Yeah, you know what the tie is. You've defined success. You know what the tie is. You're going to cut and you got the moment it happens. And then comes the how? Yeah, so how did you start cutting that tie?

Speaker 2: 5:33

You know, I was very intentional, if I'm completely honest. I was recognizing that I wasn't really in control of my emotions, I didn't understand myself, and so I really forced myself to get into situations and be like, okay, what do I feel here? Right, like, do I feel fear in this situation? Do I feel, you know, and go through those things? And it was a moment that forced me, many moments that forced me to better understand who I was and better understand the situations I wanted to be in and the people that I wanted to be in front of. Um, and so I mean if, if we bring it back to the business world, we've all been in those situations where you meet that salesperson that you can just feel the um, the need to solve a problem, like you can feel their paycheck banging on the door as they talk to you, right, um, and when you start to recognize that success is maybe something other than money, um, it changes the way you talk to people and, honestly, the money success just happens a little easier.

Speaker 1: 6:43

Well, it, it. It follows the principles of how people buy too. Uh, so, from the from, the people buy because they trust you and you. They see that you can do it. They've seen a little bit of gold. No, there's probably a bunch underneath it, and when you're doing the snake oil dance of trying to sell somebody something, they're all over that too. So I 100% agree with you On the personal level to do this, to get yourself more emotionally connected to the moment of fear and why that fear exists. Did you have a support system? Did you have like a? You're doing it all alone. How did you tackle that one?

Speaker 2: 7:18

Yeah, as my wife says, it takes a team to keep me running. So, of course, yes, you know everything, from great mentors to great family to you know, the list goes on. Certainly, I reach out and rely on a lot of people to help me, uh, learn about myself and the world.

Speaker 1: 7:39

Yeah, well, listen, I mean that's why I have a Facebook group and a men's group going, cause I'm, I, I can't get it from everything around me. And there's, there's, there's more. You just you got to reach for and put a hand out for help, and sometimes you don't even know you're drowning. So I get it totally, and that's sometimes you realize, like I give this analogy sometimes you're floating on the ocean going oh yeah, it's so good not to be drowning right now, and there's a whole bunch of people on a big boat going. If you just come over here, we'll pull you up. Can you make the effort to swim over here and you'll not have to worry about drowning again? And and and it's sometimes you don't even realize that. No, I don't want to do that. Like, I'm good here, so I'm not dry anyway. So, yes, sometimes there's a whole whole group of people that can help you if you ask for it, since, uh, you know, kind of working through this sounds like you continually do this as well. Uh, what's been the impact?

Speaker 2: 8:40

Um, you know our our business has grown a lot over the last few years. I enjoy my work far more than I ever did. I am able to now recognize what projects are really good for me and which ones are not. We have designed our business in a way that we almost always do assessments with new clients. I want to recognize whether or not I can create a great partnership with them, um, or if it's somebody I want to be around, um, and we quickly learn that so we can walk away if we want to, um. So, yeah, a lot of intentionality goes into how we design, who we work with and what we work on.

Speaker 1: 9:09

What are you most grateful for in your life?

Speaker 2: 9:16

work on. What are you most grateful for in your life? Oh, man, uh, you know, of course I can always give the family answer, and of course that's what we work towards. Um, I, I'm thankful that I have the opportunity to be uh curious every day. Um, it's, it's really something I just enjoy, and so, uh, that curiosity in a lot of ways keeps me going.

Speaker 1: 9:36

You're the. We shoot a lot of these in one day. You're the second guest in a row here to say curiosity is what keeps them moving, the gratefulness that they have. And so if you've listened to last year, you're gonna hear me repeat this, but the idea and this is at church one week is, if you're on, if you're coasting, you're on the decline and you're just, you stop being curious and, honestly, there's not times you want to do that, but if you stop being curious, you stop growing, you stop learning, uh, and all of a sudden you'll find yourself without and like, just kind of hollow, like I stopped learning, I stopped, and you blink and 10 years ago, by right, like so I, I love that and curiosity makes life.

Speaker 1: 10:13

It's what I think distinguishes kids, cuz everything's new and curious and they make games up around it. Right, and what we wouldn't give to be able to play with a little Lego and be in that moment, like the create that little star Wars thing, and also I am in star Right, right, remember those moments. Oh, please come back. Anyway, I will breathe through this. Uh, give some advice. Anyway, I will breathe through this. Give some advice. Someone who was you before you were in the car listening to that book and you realized the moment.

Speaker 2: 10:46

Give that person some advice today. Yeah, I think, finding who you want to be and what you want your life to look like. I spend a lot of time and I use language. Probably you can't put on podcasts. Oh yeah, I have fun with it. That's great, all right. So I follow what I consider the fuck yeah principle. I want to get to the end of my life and say, fuck yeah, that was awesome, right, uh, no regrets. Um, now, don't get me wrong. I'm going to make a million mistakes along the way, uh, but I want to do it with intentionality, uh, recognizing that I designed the life for myself that I wanted.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Yeah, the Dave Matthews song right, like why would we line our grays wondering what could have been right? And so, uh, I'm sure I know that that's exactly the lyric, but I'm under pressure to remember it and I got a great memory. But it's short, great advice. Um, you know, live the F, f, vl life. Right, I can't say it because we can only do it two times without YouTube accepting it for monetization. So I'm gonna stop.

Speaker 2: 11:47

Okay, all right, you need to cut. That's cool, we can do that.

Speaker 1: 11:51

Took all of them. I'm just kidding. Um quick fire. Who gives you inspiration?

Speaker 2: 11:57

Um, I get inspiration from a lot of people. I would say the people I get most inspiration from are the people you wouldn't expect. Um, the people that you meet that have been doing a job for 20 years and people just kind of ignore them at this point. Um, they are the ones that have so much wisdom that nobody's heard them, and so I get a lot of inspiration on my daily jobs just working with different people, hearing their passion for what they do.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Yeah. Sometimes just no one thought to ask yeah, and you make someone's day by asking, like what's your take on this? You've been here 15 years. Sometimes you find out they really don't want to care. They just kind of want to collect a job and go home. That's fine.

Speaker 2: 12:39

But not always. Here's my take on that. I don't believe there's very many people that walk into a new job or a new role and say I want to do the worst job possible. I think most people walk into jobs, people that are in that position where it looks like they don't care, but something led them there. The processes that they dealt with, the politics within the role, their manager right All of those things weigh on them to a point where they lose interest. I don't think people start that way. I think people end that way.

Speaker 1: 13:15

I don't think people start that way. I think people end that way. Yeah, I uh, probably reflecting on my own, I'm going to extend that a bit because I think it's a really good point and I think it's something to take away. It's kind of a hard lesson I think people should hear is you are often, though sometimes the problem, because if you're blaming others for everything that's not happening or happening, you're not looking into the introspective self of what you do or don't do, or what you're not working towards, or your false sense of entitlement. That will create a resentment that puts you sometimes into that spot that everything's happening to you, not for you. Your own mindset will determine some of that, and then, at some point, I think, you just accept it as that's the reality I live in, but you don't realize that you create some of that reality. So I think some self-accountability is a harsh lesson and a title a lot of people need to realize. They need to get through. And it is brutal because the people around you know it and the ones who've stayed with you you should be thankful for.

Speaker 1: 14:09

I'm going to take some accountability. Then let's deal with the asshole in the room, right? Oh, did I cross the line on three. That's right, I'm a. Take some accountability. Then let's deal with the asshole in the room, right, right, oh, did I cross the line on three? I did, wow, that's right, it was an F1. We're good. What? What's the best business advice you've ever received?

Speaker 2: 14:26

I think grind it out. Um, there's so much in a in, you know, you put yourself in front of the hard problems to solve. Um, and I meet so many people like uh, you know I'll get like an intern on my team or something and they'll they'll give it a three tries and four hours worth of effort to try to figure something out and they're like impossible, like impossible. Um, and every great skill that I've learned is because I grew just grind on the problem step by step and you fail a thousand times along the way. Um, to me, that was really what created uh, who I became in my career.

Speaker 1: 15:05

Yeah, well, that's part of that curiosity trait that you're like I think there's probably a way to do it. Um, I've, you know, in design. I'll give you a real world example. I, we hired these professionals, or we brought professionals in to give us a quote to move a wall into the garage. We can open up a kitchen like two feet. So it wasn't like so weird. We're moving a, removing a door and so on, and it's oh, it's not possible, you can't do it. Here's why and I said, couldn't you just put a new wall and, sister, new risers and just go one at a time and leave the other ones there and they're like well, yeah, you could do that. I'm like then it is possible, correct?

Speaker 1: 15:40

yeah like yeah, no, no, you would have to do. I'm like, are you sure? Because it's a 12 foot max on a two by 10 and it's only 11 feet. You know three, you know 0.75. You can even cantilever a little bit. What's that? Like well, no, cause the other garage is going that way. I'm like, could you just not put a hanger on it? Isn't that allowed? Like there's only like static.

Speaker 2: 16:06

It gets back to that. It gets back to that hammer and nail concept, right when you've done it this way a hundred times and you're willing to break out of the mold.

Speaker 1: 16:17

To me. I was dumbfounded by three, four structural engineer experts that came in and said you don't have to put a header here or a cross. I was like I don't think you do, I just did it. The inspectors were like I don't think you do. And so we? I just did it and and like the inspectors were like that's fine, because it's it meets code, deflections down, static inertia, did stood the math. This is pre GPT too.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Anyway, point being is in that in that example, uh, just cause someone's an expert, they sometimes stop learning and curiosity to really think through the problem versus uh and this is where I think goes back to I was tying it back to something else you're saying about mentors baggage. They were there to find the easiest role possible, job possible, to make money, versus solve my problem, and then tell me what it was going to cost. That was not an easy problem from the song. And I was like, well, that's why you're here, because you're a professional right To be fair. I was validating my own assumptions that would work, but anyway, but they, they declined it and my wife and I gather wrong. Let's do this. Yeah, thank you, I'm done with that kind of thing. All right. Uh, is there a book you recommend to be a must read?

Speaker 2: 17:25

You know, um, I was thinking about that a little ahead of the show. If there was one book that probably ignited my interest in entrepreneurialism and the book's been out 20, 25 years now E-Myth, Revisited by Michael Gerber, was really one of the first ones that kind of lit me up to the idea.

Speaker 1: 17:45

Yeah, work on it, not in it. That was what I took away from that. Actually, first audio book I used to listen to it driving back and forth to a job and it was long. I remember thinking, man, this is a long book, but it was great and I probably should revisit it because it was way ahead of when I needed it. I still haven't accomplished that, by the way.

Speaker 2: 18:05

I'm still working in my business, yeah yeah, exactly, and there's so much to learn and he leaves it fairly vague, so it gives you the chance to really kind of chase it on your own.

Speaker 1: 18:15

Yeah, if you had to start over today, what part of your life would you go back to and what would you do differently?

Speaker 2: 18:23

You know, I think it goes back to that fear concept, right, Like, if I could have recognized earlier um to chase my own dreams, um, I would have done that.

Speaker 1: 18:35

I like that. That's so good. Uh, if, uh, if if there was a question I should ask you today and I didn't, what would that question have been and how would you have answered that?

Speaker 2: 18:48

That's a great question, you know. For me, I think, how do you just find satisfaction in what you do? And for me that satisfaction just comes from I really thrive off of three things. We've talked about the first one curiosity. Thrive off of three things. We've talked about the first one curiosity. I love the idea of empathy and along with that comes kind of a vulnerability side to it. And then the third one is around humility. And I think, if you can walk into, I work in a lot of different industries.

Speaker 2: 19:23

I work in a lot of different companies and people say, well, do you know anything about healthcare? Do you know anything about insurance? No, I don't, but I do know process and I understand data and I understand strategy and we can build building blocks and all those things. But to do that you have to employ those three ideas of curiosity, empathy and humility and recognize you're never going to be the smartest person in the room. You don't have to know everything. You have to ask good questions, ask for their story and everything. I think everything is solvable at that point.

Speaker 1: 20:02

I find the healthcare is a great example, by the way, I think it's a fantastic example of in business, especially that industry. Financial services is another one where they're like well, do what you know about banking or financial or healthcare. And my answer and I was like a professional consultant for 20 some years and I said I don't have to you do my job is to get information out of you to solve your problem, because if you stay within your own box, you'll only keep creating your own things. I come out with an association idea of perspective, leveraging your input and most of the time that got people over it. Healthcare they're almost like nope, you got to be from healthcare to solve this problem. Like, do I? Because you can't solve it and you're in healthcare and it was always maddening to me of that mindset and arrogance that you have to be from it. It's the only way we'll hire. Well, you're going to keep repeating the same problems if you've never had any outside perspective.

Speaker 2: 20:58

The mantra I use is the genius was in the room and I walked in, and it's in every situation.

Speaker 1: 21:08

Absolutely People out there listening. If you're one of those people who know how to get information from people and apply it, this is the mantra that you should use. Is I don't have to know in my industry fully, you do. I know how to take your information to do something with it to solve your problem. That's what I'm good at in any industry, so I love that. Uh, thank you, by the way, so much, jason, for just taking the moments with me today. You've been fantastic and I want you to do that. I'll be shameless. Plug for real. Who should get ahold of you? How do they do it?

Speaker 2: 21:33

Yeah, if you want to find me, you can find me on LinkedIn, and you can also find me in Peel Business Design Peelbusinessdesigncom. Right there on the screen. I would love to talk to you if there's any way we can help. We believe that business deserves design, and so that's what we're trying to do.

Speaker 1: 21:53

Thank you, by the way. Once again, I really am grateful for the time you've given.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 21:59

Everyone listen at this point. This is your first time. I hope it's the first of many Tune in. We do these kind of conversations to help you get perspective on how to cut ties, what people did, how they felt, and so go out there today just figure out what the tie is you need to cut and start cutting that tie and achieve the success that you've defined for yourself. Thanks for listening.