Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Cut the Tie podcast. Hey, I'm your host, thomas Helfrich, and I really appreciate you listening being here today. We're on a mission, as you probably know, to cut the tie to whatever it is holding you back from success, of which you define for yourself. Today, we're joined by Scott Packard. Scott, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2: 0:15

Fine, I'm doing well. I'm in lovely San Diego, California. It's a bad place to be so happy to be here. Weather's terrible Just over there Sunny.

Speaker 1: 0:27

The living's hard too, right? Well, it is expensive, though, but that's okay. There's a reason for that. Scott, take a moment, introduce yourself and what it is you do.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Well, I'm Scott Packard. I am currently the vice president of business development for a small startup, smartville, that repurposes electric vehicle batteries into battery-engined storage systems. I'm a former Marine Corps officer. We can get into that and how that's kind of been a big part of my challenge with cutting the tie. But I'm a dad, I'm an outdoor enthusiast.

Speaker 1: 1:09

I don't know what else to say. Those are all great things, um, when you're in in the, in the business you're in, and what it makes like, what separates your company or your product from, maybe, your competition so most people um loosely familiar with battery energy storage uh, you know, connected to solar residential battery storage or larger scale.

Speaker 2: 1:30

What makes us different is we repurpose second life EV batteries that would otherwise be going to a landfill or waste stream to be shredded. Most people don't realize that those batteries have up to 10 years and 2,000 cycles of chemical energy still in them that can be put to use. Our current methodology is akin to taking a bite of the sandwich and throwing it away, and what we do is we eat the whole sandwich and employ it, and it keeps material out of waste streams, provides lower cost energy storage systems, and it also reduces our nation's dependence on foreign supply to the entire economic offering when it comes to energy storage.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Well, and before we kind of get into your journey and the stuff you had to do to get there, to be successful, how do you define success?

Speaker 2: 2:51

For me, success is not so much those things you list on your resume but the things that people will say in eulogy when you pass, and I'm still struggling with shifting that mindset. Uh don't necessarily translate to well-life, well, well-lived life, um and uh. You know, having uh well-adjusted uh, kids, having having a wife who knows you, therefore, um, having friends who can call on you and uh uh for help, uh or support. For me that's success and I will say that that has been part of my journey is making that transition, because where I came from, it was very much task-oriented task, task oriented um and uh, being more people focused is, was, was a thing that uh that.

Speaker 2: 3:52

I had to learn.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Yeah, let's talk about your journey a little bit and in in, in as you've progressed, with the biggest, you know metaphoric ties of speak is that you've had a cut to to find that success you defined.

Speaker 2: 4:03

Yeah that you've had to cut to find that success you defined. Yeah, so, coming out of the Marine Corps, I did 20 years in the Marine Corps as an infantry officer. A variety of experiences there, most, you know, just kind of dull and you know not movie highlight to highlight real activities, some of that. But coming out of the Marine Corps went right into the, the defense contracting arena, and did that for for a period of time just because I had this idea that this is, this is what I've done and this is what I know. And how would I ever, uh, go into the, into the commercial world? Uh, and this is, this is part of the.

Speaker 2: 4:53

The cut the tie is, you know my mindset was, you know I, I know military, I know defense, I know you know I've got the skills for that. You know I've got the skills for that. And the defense industry really takes advantage of that for the bulk of their workforce and tends to look at you in the light of what you came from, what your rank was, what your skill sets were, and can kind of pigeonhole you. The other thing that they do is they tend to appropriate your retirement. So the people who retire from the military get a portion of their, their pay and kind of in perpetuity, as long as you did a certain number of years, you'll get a certain percentage and defense contractors tend to include that in your compensation. So you know, normal person be compensated up to here, you are compensated up to here and they fill that gap with your retirement. Um, and yeah, yeah, that's like you're like hey, listen, I should.

Speaker 1: 6:12

I've already earned that money. Thank you, um. Why don't we pay market value for my? Wow, that's really shitty um, and that's bad.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Shifting out of that mindset and it's kind of a thing that I do tell. I tell people who are transitioning all the time I said that retirement is yours and you should never indulge that conversation where they say, well, you already have, you know, X amount of money every month. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 6:40

Like I'd be like go fuck yourself. I'd be like no, you're're gonna pay me market value for the skill set, right, yeah, that'd be.

Speaker 2: 6:46

Oh yeah, that's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 6:48

Wow, that's actually offensive. I'd be like you're like, you know, murder you right now. You realize this came from a unit anyway. Um, and it would be acceptable. I think we'd all understand you get off the jury. We'd be like, yeah, I mean for sure.

Speaker 2: 7:00

I gotta say that yeah, but most, most people are most people coming out undervalue their skills. They think, well, hey, I was making that much and now I'm making that much.

Speaker 1: 7:14

You're right, colonel, getting $3,600 a month, and you're like, oh, I was only making, you know, $8,000 and now I'm making $16,000, but you should be making $24,000. Yeah, it's an option. So the getting over that was a big tie for you. To come out of military mode, work for defense, that whole mindset of what you're just kind of guided in, that's what everyone does Remember the moment when you're like, yeah, I'm not doing that anymore or I'm going to make, I'm gonna break free.

Speaker 2: 7:47

It was. It was definitely kind of a, a, a gradual thing. I was fortunate coming out with uh kind of my first, uh, my first real job, if you will, in that I had a former boss who, who mentored me in um in the compensation conversation, so I was able to negotiate because I, just I, I, I, I was playing a different formal approach to my writing. You know you write little articles and whatnot and I had a focus that was called Defense Journal. That was obviously geared towards my experiences.

Speaker 2: 8:40

But I also wrote other stuff, some of it kind of douchey product review stuff, pseudo product review, but you know I mean some, some, certainly my, my military, because there's this whole false mystique about the military, um and uh just kind of really started to shift, uh, my shift, my voice and see that there was, there were folks who were interested in, in that I had more than just this, this military experience, to, to, to share Um and uh, you know just well, just interest, the interest that I was a bit mystified about Um and so that kind of opened the aperture for me and thinking about what else have I been? Completely this idea that I'm, I'm a defense contractor, you know I'm, I'm, I'm bounded by by these sets of skills, as opposed to all the transferable skills that that I had learned over the course of. You know a? Uh, you know a, a misfit life or or whatever. And, um, that that started to get me, get me thinking.

Speaker 2: 10:15

And then I just had again that, the, the friends, the network that said, um, hey, um, you seem like you could do this and we need a person who can do this, and would you be interested in doing this? And it pays twice what you're making as a defense contractor. And I was like, yes, hey, that sounds I'd be interested in that. Yeah, more of that one.

Speaker 1: 10:44

Listen, it's one thing to know the tie to cut, it's another thing to see the moment, but the biggest is in the how. So how did you, like you talked about a little bit there, but how did you really make that move? Because it's it's a disruption to your world. Right when you, when you see the need to do, you go, do it. And now you're like imposter syndrome everywhere. I'm like what am I gonna do? Who am I? So you know, speak to you how you did it, with the idea that there's someone listening going. Yeah, I have that exact same thing going on right now.

Speaker 2: 11:09

Yeah, so I, I came back from uh living overseas, um, we were in Germany, um, I was doing uh work with uh, with NATO and and the army, and um, me and um, we moved back and I had kind of this this three months, you know, not not really doing any any work, um, my company was looking for opportunities and just nothing really aligned with with my interest, um, and and so I just kind of said, hey, I'll, I'll find my own way. And friends came up and said, hey, we need a person. We won this big contract. We need a person who can run things.

Speaker 1: 12:02

This was a program up in the.

Speaker 2: 12:03

Bay Area to provide basically program management for a program that does preventative radiological nuclear detection, basically a counter-threat program in the bay area, get it up and running and and then release it into the wild for the government to kind of take over. And and that was a good kind of like middle middle thing. I was dealing less with federal uh folks and military folks and more with, you know, local government, uh, state and and, uh, state, county and city, um and and and and you know kind of kind of running things, um, but I did that for a little bit and then a friend who's COO for startups said, hey, we won this big contract and we need somebody to run it. And this was in quantum networking. And you know, as Richard Feynman says, if you think you understand quantum, you don't nobody understands it. But the thing that was key for me was, again, transferable skills provide little structure to the brilliant uh the scientists and engineers, help them stay on task, keep, keep the budget in line, the scope, schedule and cost program management type stuff.

Speaker 2: 13:31

But just a, a, a incredibly interesting world but in a startup which is incredibly chaotic and you know, from one day to the next is is, you know, you don't know where things are going to go. Um, that that I worked with some, some great folks, folks who who you know, incredibly brilliant, exposed to Nobel laureates, exposed to, you know, entrepreneurs who are making a go of it. That company successfully exited and then it's kind of like, well, what am I going to do now? Well, onto another startup you know, it's just out of the pan into the fire kind of thing and again found that I'm not really an expert at anything.

Speaker 2: 14:22

I'm certainly not an expert at quantum mechanics or quantum physics, I'm not an expert in battery chemistry or you chemistry, or I don't have an electrical engineering degree, but what I have is an appetite to learn. I'm curious, I'm a little autodidactic in that I teach myself and I am okay with chaos and I'm okay with hey, don't know if we're still going to have a company in right In in a, in a few few months. And there've been situations where it's like for month to month, it's like maybe months, not years, and that uncertainty for people. Now again back to I have recurring income with my military retirement. That gives me a buffer, a security blanket that a lot of folks don don't have and I'm very uh, I'm grateful for that well, you've earned it too right, and I think I, as I you know, we're talking a little offline.

Speaker 1: 15:37

uh, I think it's a great transition from those coming out with some type of buffer to become entrepreneurs, because you get a little. Uh, you get the buffer you need to be able to survive, eat, pay, rent, whatever, if you know mortgage and stuff, so it gives you a shot. So when you're burning through savings and other things like that, it's harder, but you get a little something there. Take advantage of that, because it's basically like a funding that you've provided for yourself that's not going to get turned off, which is great. Who are you most grateful for?

Speaker 2: 16:37

I'm grateful for friends and family who have been patient with me. I'm uh, I'm not the easiest person to um live with. Uh, I am pretty, I can be very judgmental and I can be very impatient with uh, with things. Um, in some aspects, you know, I try and find the good and and reflect on where things are providing opportunities. So my impatience means I I do set high standards for myself and hopefully that also provides an example for my kids and my coworkers. But, yeah, patients. I'm grateful for a patient wife and patient friends because I've certainly tried it on on a number of occasions. I'm also grateful for my parents. My father set just a really good example for me for a life of physical activity and comfort in the outdoors.

Speaker 2: 17:43

We used to backpack extended distances. As a kid, you know I was a runner, my father was a runner, cyclist, my father was a cyclist, my mother was a swimmer, I was a swimmer and you know lifelong interest in just moving and activity, healthy living, and which you know, the Marine Corps kind of runs, you know kind of parallel, and they expect you to be active. But not all of the, the cultural mores are, are uh oriented towards healthy living. Is, you know, tobacco use, alcohol, those, those are kind of uh things that are most people, I think that's that's been on the decline as people have gotten more more aware of. You know long-term, short and long-term dangers of that. But, um, you know I got, I was into some of those. Those bet not tobacco use, but you know it's just every event uh involved.

Speaker 1: 18:56

Yeah, what's alcohol? Yeah, some quick fires for you. So so who gives you inspiration?

Speaker 2: 19:02

That's the. The probably number one is my father. I also have a number of colleagues from the Rancor I stay in touch with. One of them is currently a three-star general and the thing that is counterintuitive is he is a just a voracious scholar. He is also. He reflects on his decisions where I tended to be a little more impulsive I don't know impulsive and that pause or that stoic review of things. I learned a lot from him. I won't mention him by name he's not quite a public figure, but I'm a little more on the liberal side and I don't want to get him in trouble, no worries.

Speaker 1: 20:05

But that's great. Somebody you work with you respected. You know it's a great person to draw inspiration from. And somebody who's different from you right A little bit, so you learn from their behaviors. I think that's a great lesson for people. What's some of the best business advice you've received?

Speaker 2: 20:29

um, oh boy, that's that is a, is it? That is a tough one. Um, probably, probably the the best was was in transitioning out of the, out of the. The military um was to set some of the cultural approaches aside. The Marine Corps appreciates very blunt interaction, bordering on asshole oftentimes, and sometimes they celebrate those individuals who are known to be assholes. Um and uh. I had the. The benefit of working with very competent um women who I learned a softer approach from um one I currently work with our COO, uh Retz, who is just phenomenal in her ability to keep track of multiple things, but also her ability to manage difficult personalities. And it's not, you know, it's not direct or confrontational, it's, you know. She deflects, she kind of approaches things obliquely as opposed to head on, and I think that is um, especially in.

Speaker 2: 21:51

You know, tense, um, you know high value interaction circumstances certainly has made me better in business development, because I don't you know it's not like everything is is, um, you know, one plus one, it's, you know right, one plus one equals the can equal three, Um, if you bring the right, right approach. So empathy, um by more, by osmosis, I've, I've absorbed it by watching. Uh, folks who are good at and I I didn't come in are good. I didn't come out of 20 years just completely everything's a brick wall that I have to smash through or anything. I think people are more successful in any leadership position or any cultural milieu have to have a diversified kit bag. But I did have some bad habits, for sure, in my experiences, but because the environment did support it.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Yeah, and it sounds like that's one of the biggest ties you had to cut too is that transition away from what was normal and accepted to what you could be become beyond, beyond just what you're told you are and who you are and how you'll need to act, and and it's, it's hard. I mean, like you, you you talked a little, you know, about the support network being in others who've served the struggles you go through and have that extended piece. I think that's, I mean, it's invaluable, right? If there was maybe one question I should ask you today, and I didn't.

Speaker 2: 23:34

What would that question have been and how would you answer it? I know you've in the past have asked folks what's you know, if they recommend a book or anything like that, because I was thinking about that and I have a very non-standard answer, particularly for folks who are in an entrepreneurial setting or are dealing with chaos. Mcdp-1, warfighting Marine Corps Doctrinal Pub. Warfighting, it's partially Sun Tzu, it's partially Clausewitz. Warfighting, combat is chaos. It's the ultimate chaos. Situation really helps with mindset, um. It helps with techniques, it it talks to, to leadership. You know your role in, in, um, not controlling but but riding the, the dragon of of chaos, um, and being, you know being like water, lout says. You know, be like water flow, accept the dynamic, but you know also work to effectively to influence and impact the situation. So when you get your hands on a copy of it Marine Corps Doctrinal Pub 1, warfighting out in uh, I want to say 87 or 88. It was recently updated and, uh, yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:11

So that's great. What are all Marines required to read this?

Speaker 2: 25:16

Yep, yep, do all, do all of them read it. I mean, one of the one of the I used to write doctrine and one of the things we said is nobody reads doctrine except the folks who wrote it. But, yeah, every. I mean, I got, I got a copy of it as a second lieutenant and was expected to be able to speak on it and, uh, also, I was expected to impart the knowledge on on my Marines. Um, and then, as I progressed up to, to reinforce that as a foundation for, for junior officers and and expect them also to be conversing in it. Um, and I do believe that that publication or that mindset, as well as the, you know, never say something like not my job In the Marine Corps. That gets slapped upside the head hey, that's not my job, I'm not doing that. I filled sandbags, I filled sandbags, I. I've dug, dug, ditches as a senior to feel great off. Um, because there is no such thing as, as you know, white collar, blue collar jobs. It's right, what needs to be done?

Speaker 2: 26:33

right, takes what it takes yeah, yeah, and, and that's that's, that's the startup, that's the entrepreneur. It's like oh hey, I'm, I'm not the guy who does X. Well, today we need you to be, and so you are, and for me, I think that's one thing that helps. I'm thinking of Marines, but people who have that mindset, I think, are successful because they don't go well, gosh, I don't do that because I'm up here and that's beneath me, the ones who do what needs to be done so I like that a lot.

Speaker 1: 27:20

I like that you're always a Marine, never retired. That's another thing too. This is great, never former, just a break. Who should get a hold of you, by the way, and how should they do that?

Speaker 2: 27:32

probably easiest to hit me up on LinkedIn. I'm pretty I'm on there every day because I also do on the business side. I don't do a lot of, I don't do as much personal stuff on there because I'm a little bit more the face of the company, but certainly we can go from there and transition into other modes of communication. I'm not going to drop my personal phone number I already get a ton of spam, as it is Right and that.

Speaker 1: 28:12

But yeah, linkedin is probably the easiest, Good, great place to start and then you can take the conversation where you need to from there. And the people who should go older are they looking on the battery side, or what's the business connection, or who do you want to be the people that actually reach out?

Speaker 2: 28:27

Yeah, the interesting thing. I mean I take all comers. I have a very wide and diverse network of folks who are big fans of the current administration folks. Well, I think the other end of that spectrum um quantum physicists, energy folks, former Marines, um politicians, uh the thing. But you know I I am currently focused in the uh the battery energy storage, uh thing, and uh that you know folks thing, and uh that you know folks. Folks are looking you know, looking for potential partnerships, collaborations.

Speaker 2: 29:07

Uh, who are interested in having a conversation on circular economy? Or how can we provide a solution If you've got a a bunch of electric vehicles and you're thinking, uh, hey, what am I going to do with the batteries Once they? Um, I've got a solution for you.

Speaker 1: 29:25

That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on today, Scott. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 29:28

Yep, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 1: 29:30

Awesome, and listen everyone who's still here. You rock for being here. This is your first time we get in.