Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tie podcast. I am your host, thomas Helfrich, and I'm on a mission to help you cut the tie to whatever it is holding you back from success, and success has to be defined by you, or you're chasing someone else's dream. So that's the first step to find your own success. Today, I'm joined by Ben Wolfe. Ben, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:17

Doing well. Thanks for having me on, Thomas.

Speaker 1: 0:20

My pleasure, not yours. You can't have pleasure here. This is all for Thomas. It's all my pleasure. Take a moment, introduce yourself where you're from, what it is you do, sure.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Yeah, I'm Ben Wolfe. I am a hotel developer operator, now marketer, and we've created some pretty cool products in the Texas Hill Country and we're actually the next hotel we're building is in South Florida and we manage and market and do revenue manage for hotels across the country. I actually started in short-term rentals, so Airbnbs. I had a short-term rental management company and then progressed to hotels and building hotels and we've created some pretty one-of-a-kind treehouse hotel properties in the Texas Hill Country under the brand Onera. So we have two locations One is 28 keys, the other one is 35 keys.

Speaker 2: 1:12

We actually just opened an expansion to the one in Fredericksburg, texas, in July and we have some units that you've never seen before, right Like a 40 foot cantilevered tree house, totally wrapped floor to ceiling in glass and a number of other cool unit designs. So that's probably what I'm known for most. But I have a marketing and management company called Owasi and we are now starting a new brand in South Florida called Baya, which is a tropical landscape resort and think of it like a mashup of agritourism, wellness, tourism and this you know, tropical hotel vibe that you might find in Bali or Costa Rica, but bringing it 45 minutes to Miami, plus alligators Plus alligators. Yes, we're in Alligator Alley. Just you know stones there from the Everglades for sure.

Speaker 1: 2:01

All of a sudden, the cabana over water.

Speaker 2: 2:03

We got a question's going on there it's like there's an alligator crawled up in here tonight anyway, I I'm still doing it, just so you know.

Speaker 1: 2:11

I think I saw you had a post or something. That's something. This is how we connected to just giving people advice out there. Sometimes you'll see a content and actually comment and be like hey, I want to interview you and people say yes, so don't be afraid to ask. Yeah, I usually ask the question what makes you uniquely different and why people pick you. I don't think I have to ask that. It's pretty obvious. You guys have come up with your own ideas and brand. I will ask how old are you, though?

Speaker 2: 2:31

How old I am. I'm 37. I'll be 38 in October.

Speaker 1: 2:35

So you're very young, you don't feel it, but you are Dive in, so dive into some.

Speaker 2: 2:47

I want to get into your journey, a bit of how you got there, you know, and how you've created all this kind of cool stuff. But start with how you're defining success. Yeah, I think we're really trying to build products that the modern traveler wants and speak to the modern traveler, right. So we're trying to create these highly shareable, instagrammable, one might say Right, these very unique experiences that leave you with stories to tell, right, leave you with memories that you'll cherish forever. And that is, if we are sort of reaching for that goal, then I think we'll create some pretty amazing stuff. One benchmark I'm often evaluating the hotels we build on is like, if I bring somebody out to the property, does the property itself make them go, wow, once we create the units, are they blown away, right? Do they have this autonomic response to whip out their phone and take a video or a photo because it's that cool? So that's what we're shooting for, um, and I think if we can kind of do that for ourselves, then then you know it often follows for guests as well.

Speaker 1: 3:43

So so the uh, the metric of success is just do they say, wow, I'm like I'm going to see here?

Speaker 2: 3:48

first. Do we blow them away? Yeah, I think at like a high level, more sort of subjectively, quantitatively. I mean we love looking at direct booking percentage. So are we getting 75, 80% direct, often through social media content? So we're really good at video storytelling. It's one of the specialties of my marketing agency, awasi, and when we apply that to these one-of-a-kind properties we can often drive 80% of bookings direct, which is for those of you that don't know hotels, that's very high, typically short-term rentals. Direct booking rate it might be like 20% if that, and hotels, if you're lucky, maybe it's 50. So 80% is very high and we are attracting a high paying guest right. Our occupancy numbers are up. Our rate numbers are up At both Onera properties. Our ADR, which is average daily rate in the hotel world, is anywhere from the mid 400s to the mid 500s and occupancy is typically all over 80%.

Speaker 1: 4:48

And I think that's the people that should realize that when you book direct book, you're saving what? 20, 30%.

Speaker 2: 4:54

We say conservatively it's about 15%, but some of the platforms it's closer to 20%. So you're still going to pay a payment processing fee either way. So that's a few percent. But once you deduct that from the 18% to 25 percent that a lot of the OTAs charge, it's right around.

Speaker 1: 5:10

you know, high teens, low 20s yeah, I mean it's fantastic Talk about your journey a little bit and what was the biggest, you know metaphoric tie to cut, to kind of achieve where you've defined your success today.

Speaker 2: 5:25

Yeah. So my journey, my entrepreneurial journey, I think probably started in high school or at minimum college. In college, me and a business partner that went to college together we started this party promotion business where we would like bus kids to and from the school to the local bars and clubs and stuff like that. And we took a cut of the door kind of thing and and you know, the venues wanted to work with us because we were packing them out. So that was probably my first taste for entrepreneurship. But I guess also hospitality and marketing. When I think about it right, it kind of encompasses all of those things and those have been the areas that I keep seemingly coming back to entrepreneurship, hospitality and marketing.

Speaker 2: 6:06

So I did, I worked at McKinsey for a little bit out of school. At that point, you know, just graduating college, I didn't have a business idea or a team that I was ready to like fully press, go on, you know, to to full send, and I think I was there for about two years, which was it was good experience, but but pretty soon realized I wanted to start my own thing again. I started another hospitality events company, did that for a few years and then really fell into Airbnb and the short-term rental world. So in the mid 20 teens, airbnbs were still pretty new. I was working for a short-term rental management company owned by a buddy of mine and I started building my own portfolio on the side so mostly what people call lease arbitrage where you lease a townhome, apartment, building, whatever and then you rent it out a short-term rental style and so I started doing that in 2016 or so by 2018, I quit my full-time job and started growing that portfolio full-time and started managing for others as well.

Speaker 2: 7:10

So that was when I really took the plunge about seven, eight years ago now and I've been fully on my entrepreneurial journey since then. So initially it was growing that short-term rental portfolio from about eight units to 200 under management in about a year and a half by the end of 2019. Covid hit and that totally rewrote the story of urban short-term rentals and all of our bookings got canceled overnight. It was a total mess, but we did make it through and that really pushed me to pivot a bit and start focusing more on outdoor hospitality, more unique stays, which led, you know, which led to Onero, which is truly what I love to do Building these landscape, one of a kind, hotels I'm way more passionate about it than I am about a cookie cutter apartment in some random city.

Speaker 1: 7:59

Well, I mean it also. You just saw the problem is over the pandemic. Those become super valuable because people want to get away For sure. Now they're long-term metals. You're going to charge a shh, yeah, the, uh, the. You know. But what was the big tie, though, like you know, was it, was there a? Was it the stigmatism of you know McKinsey, if you don't know out, there is a high-end.

Speaker 2: 8:20

It was kind of the thing you had to really let go of, or yeah, the limiting belief, I think what, what really got me to take the entrepreneurial plunge, was this, this wreck, this realization that what's the worst case scenario? Right, I'll go out and and have to get another job, right, it's like, oh, that's the worst case scenario. Then I'm much less afraid. So I think that and I've just had a number of experiences in my life where I kind of had my butt handed to me, right In one sense or another, and so I think that having my butt handed to me and then sort of coming back from that and being okay and sort of better for it in the long run, I think has taught me that, like, I'm just not as afraid of failure right After having some of those experiences and everything from quitting jobs to getting fired to, you know, getting kicked out of school to getting sober, I mean I've had so many different parts of my journey.

Speaker 2: 9:18

We could, we could talk at length about it, but that's probably a big one. I mean, I got sober 10 years ago and that has been a, yeah, a life-changing endeavor. That's really, you know, led me to where I'm at.

Speaker 1: 9:29

That's great. I mean, on that journey, getting sober is a big one, you know, as somebody who stopped drinking two years ago and luckily it never was a problem. My wife might argue at times but like you know it wasn't like owning my life, it just chipped away at mornings and it made you sleep a little less. And you know I get it. And if it was actually anywhere near a problem it's definitely something you got to cut back on. But to do it good for you, because that's like one of the biggest ties to cut is a dependency. But once you cut that it's like everything else probably seems a little easier to do. It's like, oh, if I can do that I mean like I'm all about the biography in there I can't give up Starburst, I love them.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. I just had some Sour Patch Kids last night. I won't eat them. I won't eat them, but if my wife brings them in the house, it's like I don't have any. You put a bag of stuff.

Speaker 1: 10:14

I mean, I buy a family size thing of Starbursts and it's Like I'll eat it before I get to the car. I'm like yeah, yeah, no, they weren't individually wrapped.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Yeah, you know it's funny. I actually think that, like sometimes, food sweets, at least for me is one of the hardest things to stay continually disciplined on and I try, like I've tried and I've done, like full hardcore keto before I gained a bunch of. I gained a bunch of weight when my wife had our first kid. It was during covid. We all these sweets in the house I was, you know, munching down, we weren't getting out of the house much, so I put on all this weight. So that summer, after we had our first kid, I did keto hardcore and I lost. I lost like 30 pounds and all that. But it's like then, you know, the first birthday that comes up, it's got some good looking cake, right, and then it sort of gets, you know, gets me back into to be fair, I think addictive.

Speaker 1: 11:02

I don't think alcohol is actually addictive at all, it's just a habit to me. But sugar man, you get real cravings for those. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 11:09

And I see with my kid my kid's four years old and if he gets a little bit it's like more, more, more, more right. So we have to wait to give him anything until after he's already fed and day or something.

Speaker 1: 11:21

I know we're on a tangent, but I will tell you, 30 chicken nuggets from Chick-fil-A is about the right amount before you throw up. You get from home, from Chick-fil-A to home without anyone knowing you bought it or ate it. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to leave you guys imagining how far did he drive. It doesn't matter, but it's a lot of chicken nuggets to eat.

Speaker 1: 11:38

Very quickly I'm going to say right now but don Do you remember, you know well, maybe I think one of the ties I would, I think a lot of people relate to, and as somebody who you know, who I call myself a non-drinker, meaning like we went to Cuba last year and I had a little rum just to try it. Like if I go to Czech Republic Pilsen, I'm going to have a Pilsner because that's what was made right. Like it's not, it just has to add, it has to add real value for me to drink. And then I'm not really looking to get drunk because I don't want to waste the time, but for a lot of people they find that crazy, I think. Do you remember the moment that? And I'm going to focus on that one because I think that's most relevant to so many people who'd like I'd love to just stop, but I don't know if I can socially or whatever else. Yeah, do you remember the moment you're like, yep, I'm done.

Speaker 2: 12:28

I remember that last year. Let me tell you that last year was hell, um. So I do remember that last year and it wasn't one moment. The one moment was probably the grace that that that I had in my life, that that somebody you know introduced me to the idea of sobriety, right and and and that was something that, like I don't know, like I knew it was a thing, but I didn't. I didn't really like I wasn't aware of the sort of help and support and community that is out there and that, like, there's a lot of people doing this and remember, you know, this is back in the mid 20 teens. I think that that's sober and sober curious is a little bit sober. Oh yeah, this was a lot more like in vogue today to be sober than it was, and we're like how many like non-AOL gears I have options to now it's so interesting, right, like when I got sober, like it wasn't like cool.

Speaker 1: 13:15

See Twitter, that boy's Twitter. I want to hang out. Yeah, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 13:20

So I definitely remember that first year too.

Speaker 2: 13:23

The first year is the toughest right, because you got to do everything for the first time sober, birthdays, weddings, every holiday, right.

Speaker 2: 13:30

It's just kind of like muscle memory, um, so that first year, first year, is definitely the hardest, um, but uh, yeah, I remember that last year of drinking I think my biggest issue was, you know, drinking for me was a solution to a problem that I had for most of my life, which was like oh, this is, you know, help me relax, kind of check out. Not, I've always had been pretty intense, right. I mean, I do a lot of things professionally, I have a ton of energy, and I think that drinking allowed me to kind of like chill the F out, right. And it got to a point where my usage was so intense that I wasn't getting that relief anymore. So it was like I was drinking a lot and I wasn't even getting the benefit. So that's what really got me to take a hard look at that and start thinking, like you know, is there another way? And thankfully I had somebody put in my path that showed me that way, and I'm forever grateful for it.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Yeah, well, that's important the person, your path, and you know when they come. So I've had a similar experience where someone I've known and respected he said I quit drinking I was 18. And I'm like, I don't even know if I can trust you Like, you know, like, and then you get there and you're like, you know. Then he adds a faith piece and I'm not quite to where he is now, but the point is I was like anyway, it's super important. So I think one of the ideas in the moments they aren't there always is to sing something for a big tie cut. I want to give the audience this idea that it's going to be a lot of things and you're going to need people in your life to navigate through it and help. It might be a book, it might be a person you just got to have. You know a path that says it's okay. And isn't it weird, though, when you're on the other side of like, why don't I just quit?

Speaker 2: 15:04

this Like why did I ever start? Well, yeah, you know, for me it was a little different. I know exactly why I started. I know exactly why I did it for 10 years. You know, it was like I really was seeking a feeling right.

Speaker 2: 15:14

It was a means to an end for me with drinking and that's part of why, you know, I had an issue with it, um, and so once it stopped working, then it was just a matter of like, oh, what do I do now? Right, and then I was able to create a number of other tools in my kit to kind of deal with life, right, whether that was meditation, prayer, support systems, you know, intimacy with friends and family, that that a lot of that had kind of gone by the wayside with my, my drinking and use. So, um, yeah, it's, it's been, it's been great. I can't, I can't recommend it enough and I'm kind of excited that it's like trendy now, because just so many more people are getting to experience what it's like to remove alcohol from your life, and I think it can be very powerful.

Speaker 1: 15:56

I love that as you've navigated your kind of life and your business here like right, dive in a little to the how, though you know it's one thing to know it, identify it like, and you've touched a little bit, but maybe just kind of you know how did you make that happen for yourself?

Speaker 2: 16:10

And sorry, the how to which piece, Like you know, you cut the tie.

Speaker 1: 16:13

But it's one thing to identify and say I'm doing it, but there are steps that are involved, like you know how, like what was your. It's the work.

Speaker 2: 16:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:30

And you're talking specifically on the sob Like it's one thing to say, oh, I had to quit doing it, like that's a big one, and I think there are a lot of people who you know they're going to be please go, because because, like, that is one that really really holds so many people back.

Speaker 2: 16:42

And and I and sure If you're a girl, of course- like had this person put in my path that had done it before me and that I respected them, I trusted them. I went to support groups for it. I met other people that had been there before me and had come to the other side and I believed that they were actually genuinely happy and I wasn't, and I knew what I was doing wasn't working. So I did what they did Right and I followed the. I followed the suggestions that they gave and I was like, worst comes to worst, I do these things, um, and I do these things and like it doesn't work and okay, I can always go back to drinking Right, or I do these things and it works, and maybe I have a different, different way of life and I can have some of this happiness that that they had, and I mean it.

Speaker 2: 17:28

For me it was a spiritual journey, right. So it's not it's hard to say any one kind of piece of it, but for anyone who's interested in that, there's, there's great programs out there. You know AA probably being the most prominent one to to get you to to sobriety and to be able to maintain it.

Speaker 1: 17:45

Yeah, I did it. I listened to one book called it was Alan Carr drinking mate quit easy or something, I can't remember. I literally listened listen to one book called uh, it was alan carr drinking mate, quit easy or something, I can't remember. I literally listen to it and I was done the next day. I was like I kind of reframed the meeting and then a friend of mine went through. He was like a different. He went through the a program and he was. He was kind enough to invite me to his one-year chip, which was kind of I had lost touch a little with him.

Speaker 1: 18:04

I would say that would not have worked for me, though I would like that program would. No, I would be like, oh no, no, I'm going to start drinking more, sure, then I'll make this program. I was like, oh my gosh, that was like a different level. So, yeah, not because I knew that wasn't for me, but I didn't know that until I went to his thing and I will go to his two-year if invited, but I am not going. I would just I'm not going to advisors or listen to advice for advisors or listen, you know, or I can't talk. It's the end of the day, it's like the 10th podcast. Let's just go with that. What advice would you give to the listener?

Speaker 2: 18:40

Advice I would give to a listener. So if, if you are trying to embark on an entrepreneurial journey, I think that you have to know going in it's going to be really hard. So, so know that going in and and sort of I think anticipating that makes it easier to get through some of the harder times. And then it goes back to what I talked about before, which is what's the worst case scenario. Think about worst case scenario and I think that can remove a lot of fear. Worst case scenario fall flat on your butt. You got to go get another job right, not the end of the world. You've had a job right that you're quitting, so you know how to get a job, not the end of the world. You've you've had a job right that you're quitting, so you know how to get a job, um. So I think that those can really help kind of remove limiting beliefs.

Speaker 2: 19:18

For me Also, it's been so important. I think it's really important to to choose business partners wisely, um, and I've I've like so crucially important and I've I've sort of stepped on minefields with that earlier in my career and then I feel like I've gotten a lot better and smarter with that later in my career. And one thing that I've found is that earlier in my career I feel like I would try to I might try to partner with somebody that was too like me, or I would try to partner with somebody that what I thought would solve my problem, because I didn't want to do something right and I thought they would do it or they would handle it Um and and without enough due diligence or incentive alignment to to make sure that they actually could deliver on it. So I've been in business partner relationships where, like I felt like I was kind of doing everything and I've had to figure out how to undo those and move on. But more recently I have had, I've had the ability to identify partners that are like.

Speaker 2: 20:20

I know for fact and for certain and from referrals that they are way better than me in certain domains and way smarter than me in certain areas. And those partners that have a complimentary skill set, that come highly referred, that have stellar reputations, have been total game changers and I've had to give up big pieces of companies to attract those type of people and it's been so, so worth it. Of the big things I look for in a partner and basically anybody on our team, is an extraordinary sense of urgency. I think that that is crucial and it might be the single most important asset and cultural attribute of a successful young company. A startup is urgency, because you have to meet this, this minimum viable escape velocity to get out of the startup phase and be a successful, viable business, and I think that it takes extraordinary passionate, urgent people to make that happen.

Speaker 1: 21:25

Yeah, and you not only have to have the model, the problem, you're solving all the other things, right. You just got to have so much fuel behind it. You get it off the ground and let it float in space, right, like you got to get it off to get it to escape the gravity of what a startup it's going to crash. You don't get it outside that space Now. It may blow up or implode once it gets out, but anyway, that's a different thing. But just to get out there, right. And you're spot on with that partnering and not hiring someone to do something you just don't want to do. That's outsourcing, right, like that's a don't put a partner in that position because that's a short lived thing, right, it's. It's, like you know, strategic piece. I absolutely love that. What's kind of big tie today, though, you can't cut.

Speaker 2: 22:06

That's a good question. What is the big tie today that I can't cut? What is the big tie today that I can't cut? I think that it probably has to do with it's a good question. You know, I'm continuing to lean more into and and try to continue to get better at, like the personal content side of things. Right, we've, we've done I think we do a good job with my twitter, with my linkedin right, we're putting out really good written content and the personal brand side of things has been really valuable for me, um, and we've been doing instagram really well and and social media marketing on the the video side for hotels. And we've been doing Instagram really well and social media marketing on the video side for hotels, and we've done that really well.

Speaker 2: 22:50

But I haven't done as much of the short form video myself, like for my own personal page. So I'm really like trying to invest in that double down. I think maybe I had a limiting belief that, like you know, that wasn't me to be one of those like short form video sort of gurus, if you will. But I do think there's incredible value in the personal brand side of things on short form video, so I'm going to put a heavy focus on it. I'm sure I'm going to put out some cringe worthy stuff initially and then I'm going to get better at it and hopefully in a year or so I'll be pretty good at it.

Speaker 2: 23:23

So that's probably the one that I'm focused on, and then right right sort of after that, and connected to it to some way, is YouTube and long form video. So those are the two things that I want to do more of that I think have such incredibly high returns that I haven't had time or bandwidth to devote a ton of energy to it. But I'm in a stage now where I think I can and I really want to double down on it, because people connect with people, right. People trust people way more than they trust brands or corporations, and so the more that I can kind of put out my personal brand and and sort of build that trust and authority on multi-channel, a whole bunch of different platforms, I think the the the better off my company and future endeavors will be.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Yeah and listen. I've struggled with this as well and it's like I love podcasting and almost wish there wasn't a video component, because that's like where I'm comfortable. I like to do like the short, like you know, with our marketing agency, like it's important but it's boring, like who's it's it's important but it's boring, like who's gonna want it, like it's like, but then on the personal side for like, let's say, your hotel, there's actually fun, like you could do things with that, and but if it's like on the business, I'd like it's almost, it's almost painful. I don't want to do it like I'd like, it's like anyway.

Speaker 1: 24:39

so I, I'm sure, we just shrug with it's like what's the right mix of what I do to make it worth it?

Speaker 2: 24:45

I'm trying to get into the mindset of that, trying to almost look at it like a game that I'm trying to figure out right, because I do think there's an element of that there. There there's a gamification of social. You know how you use hooks, how you sort of use cadence and storytelling to pull people in and re hook people and and and garner, you know, interest and deliver real value, like you have to deliver value, whether that's entertainment, whether it's, you know, information, right Knowledge, like there needs to be some sort of value inspiration. So it's like it's. I'm trying to stay curious and and to to, to look at it like look, I'm not going to be great Initially. This is new for me, even though we do it as a business for other properties. And so just putting in the work, putting in the reps, getting out more content and just making incremental gains daily, and then those stack up and before you know it, you're actually pretty good at something.

Speaker 1: 25:38

One of the things we give advice to a lot of people who are in your spot is, if there's not a real business reason behind it or it's what you want to do next, when you have enough money not to care anymore, don't do it. It cannot be somewhere in between. You have to be like this is going, it's so much work, yeah, yeah, and it's also it's like it's I say the joke. It's like you put a certain number in my account. I will go to an audio-only podcast, I, I will be in. There will be no social media at that point. It'll just be cause that's what I want to go do.

Speaker 1: 26:13

Uh, and and I know that as someone who's pretty active on social media, I'm like I will, kate, that would all go away. So, and that's I, gen XL, just take it for. But that you know. But that's how I feel about it honestly. So it's like I, I, you know, outside of comedy channels that I have for my own entertainment, it's a struggle. So, anyway, listen out there. You got to do it for real business reason and when you go back to the kind of readiness energy you're going to have to bring it, I know like I have to bring it for 10 shows every Thursday, right Every show. When you listen to it you can't know if it was the first or last. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:40

You don't know.

Speaker 1: 26:41

You have no idea how many I've canceled. No, I know how many have canceled it, which has been a little frustrating, but we'll get back to that. That's not even going to get edited. All right, a little rapid fire. What's the one entrepreneurial book you?

Speaker 2: 26:51

recommend to new people. I think just the one book in business in general for me and I mostly listen to podcasts and consume information different ways now but how to Win Friends and Influence People was a book my dad gave me when I was a kid and I just think that it has it's permeated so many different aspects of my life. It's it's allowed me to build relationships, build community, find business partners, find clients so many different find investors, um, just in terms of how to build interpersonal relationships, build trust, um and uh, yeah, that that's probably my number one.

Speaker 1: 27:22

Yeah, it is. I mean it's. You feel like you're in a traveling time machine reading it and you imagine that old stuff. People used to talk differently back then, I don't know, because they were less removed from accent so they didn't have the American kind of accents yet. It was still like second, third generation immigrant. You know, people got differently back then. Anyway, you feel that in that book anyway For sure.

Speaker 2: 27:40

But I still think it's very applicable, right Like the overarching concepts are still very applicable even today, um so yeah I, I do.

Speaker 1: 27:49

It's a solid one. If you don't, if you don't read, start that one. I heard a comedian the other day, uh, gen x comedian. He was like you know, the new gen z and y's love subtitles on movies. He's like you should try a book. The whole thing is subtitles anyway. It's just funny. Um, whole thing is subtitles anyway. It's just funny. Um fun joke. Had to be there, all right. Uh, rick's rapid, if you could go back to any part in your timeline, what would, when would that be, and what would you do differently?

Speaker 2: 28:20

yeah, I just go back to any part of my timeline. Um, I think it goes back to the, the business partners, right, and it's so hard to know that without having had the experience. But if, both with business partners and with team, I could have been laser focused on A players and not sort of settled for convenience for people that I knew to fill a gap, something like that, and could really just hone in on a players and wait for them and be patient, um, I think that it would have. It probably would have saved me a lot of, a lot of headache and a lot of things that that slowed me down.

Speaker 2: 28:55

So, just, it goes back to the whole, like you know, higher, what, higher, slow fire, fast, right, type thing, and we've really embodied that now with my new company. I mean, we've had two or three hires that we've had to fire, whether day one or the first couple of weeks, and just finding out that, despite the interviewing, despite how good we thought they were going to be, we found out early on wasn't a cultural fit, they weren't fully bought in, they weren't team focused, they just weren't in alignment with our values, and it's so much easier to to rip the bandaid off and stretch the team a little bit for for a period of time, to make sure that that everybody's a really good fit and everybody's an A player. Um, so yeah, cause the fastest way to push A players out the door is start hiring B and C players.

Speaker 1: 29:39

So yeah, I'm the way the A player is like thanks, I have more work now.

Speaker 2: 29:42

Yeah, I'm doing more work, I'm cleaning up their mess, right.

Speaker 1: 29:44

It's not like I'm picking up what they did. I'm cleaning up what they did Exactly. You're picking it up. It's like, hey, at least they're carrying something. And if I'm cleaning it up, it means they're dropping everything and I have to do mine and I'm out.

Speaker 2: 29:54

Yeah, yeah and look, I think early on, I've always sort of like oriented to action and to movement and to urgency, which I think is good and I think it's helped me. But that's one area where you have you have to be patient to get the right person.

Speaker 1: 30:08

Before my final question comes around uh, I forgot to let people pre-stalk you. I always let the ADHD or kind of stalk you. I forgot to ask the question, but just you know what's the one link people should go to to stalk you.

Speaker 2: 30:20

Yeah, probably my link, probably my LinkedIn, um, and, and from my LinkedIn you can get to my newsletter where I put out some good content once a week. But yeah, linkedin, ben Wolf WOLFF, if you search me, I should pop up, so follow me there.

Speaker 1: 30:35

Double Fs. You're looking good, dude, you do a note, y'all don't have to note me.

Speaker 2: 30:39

If you put in Ben Wolf Onera or Ben Wolf Owasi, O-A-S-I, I'll definitely come up.

Speaker 1: 30:44

Awesome, very good. If there was a question I should have asked you today, and didn't what is that question and how do you answer it?

Speaker 2: 30:52

Yeah, there's a question you should have asked. Yeah, I think that the question, the question that you should have asked, is maybe where do you see the puck going in travel and hospitality? I mean, that's kind of my domain of expertise, I would say, for the most part, is travel and hospitality, and I do think that it's continuing to move in this direction of experience, first story, first shareability. You want to create experiences that people want to share and so that's where I see the puck going. It's already sort of moving in that direction and we're creating hotels that try to align with that In the future. So I've done so much of this in landscape and outdoor hospitality and like beautiful natural settings. In the future I really think this is going to get brought more to urban hotels as well and, like, urban hotels have kind of lagged behind some of the more outdoor focused, nature focused experiential hotels, and probably in the next one to two years I plan to start start working on an urban experiential concept. So more to come on that.

Speaker 2: 32:04

I was in San Francisco recently, probably in the next one to two years, I plan to start working on an urban experiential concept.

Speaker 1: 32:07

So more to come on that I was in San Francisco recently and I haven't validated this is true. But people who live there they said in that city if a hotel goes under they have to sell to the city for homeless housing.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I'm thinking what a great way to ruin a city. You know, la has some of that crazy stuff too, where I mean, I know people that own buildings, you know SROs or legitimate hotels that the city will just kind of say like, oh, we're taking this and going to use it for homeless housing. If I can believe we're going to set the price.

Speaker 1: 32:42

Well, I mean, it's great if you have the math behind it. You're like cool, they're paying for it. I'm not taking care of anything, it's going to be horrible. Oh, I dig it right now and I'm going to. I'm going to demo this thing in about 10 years. Thank you so much for coming on, Ben. I really appreciate you. I know you're super busy and focused and you need to give the time to our show and other guests. It does mean quite a bit to me. I really do appreciate you, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 33:03

Thanks for having me on man Appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 33:05

And anybody who made it to this point in the show you rock. If this was the first time here, I hope it's the first of many. And if you've been here before, you know what I always say Get out there, go cut a tie to whatever's holding you back from that success, but first start with defining that success for yourself. Thanks for listening.