Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tide podcast. Hello, I'm your host, thomas Helfrich, and I'm on that mission to help you cut a tide, whatever it is holding you back from the success that you own, the one you defined yourself. And today I am joined by Lori Jane. Lori Jane, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:14

Good. How are you today?

Speaker 1: 0:16

I am delicious. Thursdays are my film day, so we're not going to say what Thursday of what month this was, but it is a Thursday.

Speaker 2: 0:22

So that's what you're doing on Thursdays.

Speaker 1: 0:24

That's it 10 to 12 a day. Then tell 10 to 12 a week. Let's do it.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Oh, wow, Okay. So before we get started, even though you're running this show, I must tell you you have an incredible podcast radio voice and you are doing exactly what you need to be doing. Your voice is so smooth. It's great. It's perfect for this.

Speaker 1: 0:48

Just that I would tell you. I appreciate that and I'm a there's an alter ego channel that I have ah it's sexy voice guy, if you google it oh yeah, it's perfect for pot that's it. It's true, it's a true statement. Actually, it's actually where I do my fun. It's more okay, yeah, later, but tonight I want you to introduce yourself, lori Jane. Who are you? What is it you do?

Speaker 2: 1:08

Okay, lori Jane Roth and I am the founder of the Inside Game, where it's backed by 25 years of IT recruiting, and I work primarily with anyone from a college grad to mid-level professionals who right now are feeling very invisible, and I coach them and give them a strategy to be successful.

Speaker 1: 1:35

You are spot on with the middle, kind of like the VP executive, the director. That's kind of feeling oh boy, I'm on the chopping block at any point, Right.

Speaker 2: 1:45

Absolutely yeah. And the biggest myth out there is that, um, people feel like, listen, I'm really good at what I do. I, I get this, don't worry about me, I'm going to go in and knock them dead. But nothing could be further from the truth.

Speaker 1: 2:00

Yeah, and and now it's. It's like we will. We're going to focus on your journey and kind of the metaphoric ties you've cut, but you are in a competitive coach space. Why do your customers or clients pick you Like? What's your unique?

Speaker 2: 2:13

Yeah, I didn't realize that when I started to do the coaching, that it was competitive, because I just feel like I'm so good at what I do. But I guess it is competitive. But what makes me a little different is that I've been at the decision-making table and I hear what they say. They say, listen, don't say this to the candidate because we don't want to freak them out or we don't want to have any lawsuits. But this is why we passed on them. Have any lawsuits, but this is why we passed on them.

Speaker 2: 2:47

I hear this and I've heard it for 20, 25 years, because I'm able to get inside with them to say you know, really, come on, why are you passing on this person? They're great. Okay, they might be great. I couldn't get this guy to shut up. I, you know, the guy shows up late, he's all disheveled, his communication style was all over the place. So all of this I just put together as part of my strategy and it's really about the soft skills and, yeah, and I'm able to present it in a way that my clients trust me.

Speaker 1: 3:16

My wife went through like a out of nowhere layoff at the end of the last year and all the interviews, great stuff, never get feedback and it is such a broken part of the system that you can never actually get direct feedback of why you were passed on and or why they chose somebody else. Sometimes the reasons, quite honestly, are not legal. I don't want somebody that old, I don't like their color of skin, like all those things are real, yes, but the ones that would be helpful would be hey, talk too much, didn't ask, really didn't ask any questions. Answers were all over, like those kinds of feedback pieces for the employers, let's say, that are fair, that are truly looking for the best candidate would be really. There should be some kind of mechanism to do that and so you're. Are you doing that for a candidate or how are you getting the inside scoop? Because, like most employers won't, they won't sniff it, touch it, because of how that might be interpreted for equal opportunities and things like that.

Speaker 2: 4:16

Well, that's being in the business for 25 years, I've been able to get this information from clients I've known for really very well. I mean, we go out to dinner together, we go out to lunch together. I mean I actually took a bunch of IT guys out about 15 years ago it was a while back and I said come on, guys, what's with these really tough technical tests that nobody can get by? Can you answer these questions? And they all looked at each other and I said, hmm, not really. No, I said, why are you doing that? And they just, you know, they just laughed.

Speaker 2: 4:50

I could never get a straight answer, but that's just. You know that I digress there, but usually it's they talk too much, they don't ask the right questions. They, you know again, they come in disheveled, they're all over the place. They were like really nervous, so nervous I couldn't get beyond that. And sometimes they'll actually say we want a woman for this job or we want a guy for this job and we want somebody between this age and this age. And it's really a lot to do with the soft skills versus they didn't really know what they were talking about. I very rarely get that feedback.

Speaker 1: 5:26

Yeah, and in your own journey here, before we kind of get going, I jokingly say, like as a fellow ADHDer, let's give them something to look at while they're listening to you talk. Give you one link, because if you give an ADHDer two links, it's over for you. Give you one link that someone should stalk you a bit while you're talking this afternoon.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Two links. It's over for you. I'll give you one link that someone should stalk you a bit while you're talking this afternoon. Linkedin for sure, Definitely LinkedIn. I did just post a YouTube video on hiring health stories, but that would be the best way. Follow me on the inside game and on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 6:00

It's Lori-Jane-Roth-a bunch of numbers 084-696. We'll talk about getting there and nail it in a little bit, Definitely.

Speaker 2: 6:13

So, lori, before we get into your journey, how do you define success? I think success for me, thomas, would be partially like impact and freedom. If I feel like I'm being impactful in somebody's life and I've made a difference, and if somebody reaches out to me and they say, oh, I followed what you said and it was great advice and I got moved to the next round. Or somebody says, oh, I love when you told me to do that, about how I add value. At the very end he said I did that. It sounded great. That, to me, makes me very happy. And the second part would be freedom freedom to just do what I want to do. I don't make a very good follower, I'm a better leader. So if I can have the freedom to do my own thing, I'm very happy with that. It's success.

Speaker 1: 6:59

To me it's a popular answer and it doesn't make it a bad answer. Purpose plus the cap and dirt, you know, captain of your calendar.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Yes.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Really good measures of success, because it provides the mental space and the human space to feel like you're doing something throughout your entire day that adds value to you and I I wish more people could feel that the trick is making money to do it. So let's talk about your journey a little bit, um. So just walk us through like take a few minutes to talk about you. You talked about a little bit of it, but in your pursuit of that definition of success in your journey, tell me about some ties maybe the metaphorical ones or physical ones you've had to cut.

Speaker 2: 7:37

People say purpose all the time. I mean, I've listened to a lot of your podcasts and people always bring that up. But when you don't have purpose because you find it in other areas, you find it in drinking and drugs and shopping and gambling and anything to fill that void. So when you don't have that purpose, you really do feel it. So when you get that purpose, people say how do you know? You just know. I mean, it's just, this is what I'm meant to do, but you know.

Speaker 2: 8:12

So, in answer to my journey on what made me want to cut the tie, well, I've been doing this for so many years, almost 25 years, and this last year has been like nothing I've ever seen. You know, actually, it was 2024 when I just said this is like a weird market. I have openings, I have good people that I'm working with, I'm applying the same formula that I've always applied to make things happen, but yet nothing was happening. And then I started reading all of this stuff on LinkedIn about how many people are out of work and then their experiences, and I said I don't know if I can do this, you know, be in this industry anymore. I mean, here, I have devoted like 25 years of my life to this and it's changing right before my eyes and I thought I could do this well into retirement. So I had to make a decision right then and there to cut the tie and to evolve into something a little different, which is the coaching.

Speaker 1: 9:11

Yeah, inside game. It's incredibly insightful and you couldn't ask for a better platform than LinkedIn, who, I guess the birth of it, the best content to, typically around getting jobs as core. That's, I think, what LinkedIn still identifies as a professional place to build a career. Get jobs. That's where they make their money. Right, yeah, is in businesses, advertising, but specifically it's more in HR posting work. You know when you're cutting those ties along the way, right Define, like the one that was the hardest, though, like what was the? How would you label it? Because you've listened to a couple shows, so, like you know what, what, how would you label that? That tie?

Speaker 2: 9:48

the tie that I cut and why it was difficult yeah, like, why was that one so important?

Speaker 1: 9:52

like you, peel the onion on that one a little bit for me um, probably.

Speaker 2: 9:57

Well, definitely the recruiting, because I've I'd given so much of my life to that. I'm very passionate about what I do and I take the hits personally because I get to know people so very well. I get to know about their life, their families, everything about them, and it's a real win for me when they win. So that was probably the most difficult thing to do is to say I can't believe that this industry has changed so much that I have to give this up. You know, after 25 years I mean I'm not probably going to completely give it up, but I definitely have to evolve and do something different. And I remember the most important part of what I do and what I like the most is coaching people for that job.

Speaker 2: 10:44

And so I know a lot of recruiters will say well, this is the location, this is the end. Bring your resume, make sure you dress well, make sure you do. You know you do some research on the company. But I do and I think I do it like nobody else does which is really preparing them for the interview, telling them how to come across, what to say, what to do, and I think that's what sets me apart from the other recruiters. I think because I get that feedback from other, from my candidates. They say nobody preps me like this, nobody does, nobody gives me this type of information. So it's really hard to walk away from that for sure.

Speaker 1: 11:23

You know, and I do, my company does a bit of. We put in growth frameworks, basically for organizations to grow their business. But I do work with a handful of executives that are in that spot where they're trying to reinvent themselves or find that next role, Because the higher you go up in the food chain, the harder it is to find what people will buy. Even if you have a really good network you got to still fit perfectly. Do you feel like people are like the product and they're trying to sell? This is what I do and I'm curious to hear if your take on this. I feel like they are the product and they're trying to sell one thing to one person one time, Instead of having a service you may sell to multiple people. Do you prepare them the idea and their brand around that? I do that concept that you were trying to get this you across the line to one fire.

Speaker 2: 12:12

No, no, I feel like when I prepare them, I don't prepare them for what they know. I mean, they know what they know. I don't really build a brand around them, so to speak, but what I do is I give them I walk them through different scenarios and what might occur I give them a lot of soft skills. Well, first of all, let me just go back. I get them where they are right now. Okay, let's put your oars in the water right now. Tell me about your biggest pain point. What's the struggle? Is your resume working? Are you getting calls? Are you getting interviews? Okay, great, if that's working, then I go to the next one. Okay, so are you interviewing? Yes, are you getting jobs offers? No.

Speaker 2: 12:56

So I try to figure out where they are then and I prepare a plan around that particular person. But, in answer to your question, I don't really have to brand them. I just want them to have enough confidence, because so many people right now are so defeated from everything that they've been through. I mean, I work with people that have been out of work for a year. I mean a year, I mean 50, 60, 75 interviews that they're going on and nobody you know, and no jobs. So they're pretty defeated. By the time they get to me they're pretty war torn. So I have to make sure that I get them on a good place, build their confidence back up and give them some working, actionable steps.

Speaker 1: 13:41

It's interesting. So a lot of the solopreneurs that we work with, they're your exact same clients, but they've gone through a thousand interviews, a thousand you know applications on LinkedIn, otherwise literally like a thousand, and now they're entrepreneurs. And so I'm curious this is my take on this as well. I think others wonder this. So there's that group that would really rather have the steady W-2, but they're finding themselves with, whatever it is, ageism or just they're just not a fit. For whatever reason, whatever it is, they can't find a job. The person. And so like well, like well, I gotta go do it myself. I can't sit here and not make money, uh, but but once you put the word founder on your, on your linkedin resume, hr walks right past that oh, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:29

I get rid of founder, or just the sense that you are your own business owner yes, get rid of it.

Speaker 2: 14:34

Yeah, yeah, oh, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, I mean somebody put on their resume I don't want to say it because I've never seen it before and the person will know I'm talking about them I'm like, well, what were they thinking? Why would they possibly put that?

Speaker 1: 14:49

Because it's something he's doing oh, you've got to share it. Now you have to. Now it's a Pandora's box.

Speaker 2: 14:54

Oh my God, I don't know, but he's a watchmaker and he put that on it and it's like why are you doing that? Do you not want a job? I mean things that I just shake my head at and I think, why are they doing that? I mean you can put that stuff on your resume but bury that a little bit further down your resume, yeah, like a hobby. I mean I don't even like to put hobbies there, because you don't know who's reading that resume and might look at that hobby and they say, oh my God, my daughter was killed in doing that and it might turn them off. So anything personal I just take off, get rid of it. It's not necessary.

Speaker 1: 15:35

I think that's really good advice because it does matter. It's funny because my wife speaks a different language, slovak, and it's not a very big community of Slovak, but it got her her last job to some degree because they were looking for somebody in the US who did not grow up there. It's a company and they hired her because she is US-based but from another country company and they hired that her because she is us based, but from another country. So they, they, she had an understanding of central europe, eastern europe, different cultures, and it's interesting because that difference was the one they picked up on that she was native, fluid slovak name, all match, and they're like, oh, we want to talk to her and I was like, damn, like you know that found the perfect opportunity where some people might leave that off yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:14

She left it in, she's like well, that's just kind of that's a big thing Okay.

Speaker 2: 16:17

So she just got lucky.

Speaker 1: 16:19

Well, but that's actually the job she wanted too is one was globally. That would value that. So I think that would be like.

Speaker 2: 16:25

Yes, that's excellent.

Speaker 1: 16:26

So there's a balance between that. But maybe a specific narrow little side business I'd probably lead off, unless it's very much so related to what you're trying to go do.

Speaker 2: 16:34

Yes, you want to be attractive on your resume, to the masses. You want to be widely looked at. You want to be niche in some categories, but you also want to be widely accepted, and then you can narrow it down from there.

Speaker 1: 16:51

I will tell you a technique that we do is we'll look for people hiring a CMO in a certain size company, let's say like 10 million or less and I'll contact the CEO and be like hey, have you considered a fractional CEO on the whole marketing team for less than the cost of an intern?

Speaker 2: 17:06

And it'll work.

Speaker 1: 17:08

We've seen that get pulled. We're like we'll do that for you and a lot more for way cheaper than you're paying. We'll talk'll talk.

Speaker 2: 17:15

Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 1: 17:16

So there are creativity pieces behind it. I think out there and I think that once you're in the job market, you're all in. And when we coach on the business side, if people are kind of in between, I tell them you cannot sit on two chairs. If you want people to buy your entrepreneurial services, you have to own that. Be that Right. Entrepreneurial services, you have to own that. Be that. You've got to own that. Be that. Now, it doesn't mean like you couldn't be, like hey, I'm a marketing manager and it could be your company, so it's like you're doing contract work, would you agree? That's a probably better strategy than putting founder owner CEO.

Speaker 2: 17:45

Oh yeah, absolutely. What I usually just put is consultant. I just say owner off and I just put consultant, because you really are a consultant, you know. So you founded the company. That's great, that can come up in conversation when you're on the interview. But to get someone to call you, I'd much rather them say consultant than founder.

Speaker 1: 18:04

What's your take on? A company is very quick to pass on a candidate that's had two-year jobs moved on, but the irony being that a company will do the exact same thing to you without even blinking.

Speaker 2: 18:16

What's my take on it? My take is, in IT is not like any other animal. Okay, people are being well, they're being recruited from more money. If you can't do the best that you can to retain your people, they're going to leave, especially in technology, and especially if you're very good at what you do. Okay, you better do everything in your power to retain them, because in IT they're leaving. Two to three years is the normal amount of attrition that you're going to see. If it's anything less than there, it may become a job hopper situation, because even in IT, you should be staying bare minimum a year. I don't like a year, so it should be at least two years or more, unless it's a contract.

Speaker 1: 19:02

Unless it's a contract, absolutely so, lori, if there was a question I should have asked you today, and I didn't what would that question have been and how would you answer it?

Speaker 2: 19:12

Oh sure, end on that. What question should you have asked, but you didn't Probably do. I think I can be successful in this business when, as you said, it was saturated with a lot of different coaches. And why? Answers Okay, yes, I truly do believe that I can be successful in a saturated coaching industry because I truly do believe that I bring something different, that I'm not methodical, I don't base it on theory. I am right there in the trenches. I understand what these job seekers are going through. I call them my family, I can relate to them and, yeah, I think I can be very successful in this. I already am so. So, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1: 20:09

I mean whenever you could bring real experience, and I love the idea you just said that it's not just methodical, like there's actual nuance to get someone to, because if it was methodical then you might as well just make a digital course and call it a day.

Speaker 1: 20:25

And listen, there's a spot for that. If you just have any clue and you just need some direction to start, you might be too far along to help some people because they're like dude, you need to get the basics right, like first, and that might be a space, but I agree with you. If you have the mentality of I can actually really help you get whatever it is. It is your. That's based on experience, not theory. So, shameless blood for you. Who should get ahold of you, then, and how do they do it?

Speaker 2: 20:50

Well, yeah, if you've been struggling to find a job and you've tried everything, you've been pounding the pavement, you're you know, you're really giving up on this and you're wondering if you should change careers or what's going on, you're really struggling. I can help you. I sincerely believe, with all my heart, that I have something that you won't get anywhere else and I'd love to love to work with you. And, yeah, go on the inside game and LinkedIn, or follow me on LinkedIn. And I actually also have a course, and I have a one-hour session, of course, and I have a VIP session where I just walk you through every steps of everything. It's like having a coach in your pocket. I'm there every step of the way with you on that.

Speaker 2: 21:33

But I think a lot of people get the benefit from the one hour session. I point you in the right direction and I tell you. You know where you need to go and what you need to do. You know within an hour and then I give you action steps to follow up with. You know after that. So there's a walk away.

Speaker 1: 21:49

So hit her on LinkedIn. I think it's under Lori Jane Roth.

Speaker 2: 21:52

Yes, it is, and the inside game is the coaching part of that.

Speaker 1: 21:57

Awesome, yeah, thank you so much, by the way, for coming on today. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 22:00

Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 22:02

I appreciate it. Anybody made it this far. As you know. If you've been here before, you need to get out there. Go cut the title. Whatever's holding you back from your success? Own that success.