SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tide Podcast. Hi, I'm your host, Thomas Helfrick, and I'm on a mission to help you cut the tide. Whatever it is holding you back from your own success. Define your own success, though, because if you let someone else define it, a parent, co-worker, society, you are chasing someone else's dream and you're not going to be very happy in the end. So we're going to be uh talking about brandy today with Mr. Jason Vanna. Vanna? Vanna like Vanna White or Vanna?

SPEAKER_00: 0:24

Van Vanna like Vanna White. I actually met Vanna White's brother. I just want you to. Yeah, you won't you won't see me in a sequence dress like her, but you know, it's just like.

SPEAKER_01: 0:33

You know what? The show would have been a lot, a lot higher rated if you had a sequence dress on, right? Probably. Jason, take it to a moment, introduce yourself, you know, where you're from, what it is you do.

SPEAKER_00: 0:44

Yeah, yeah. So my name is Jason Vana. I live in the Chicago suburbs. Um, and I am the founder and CEO of Shift Agency. We are a brand positioning agency that focuses on working with B2B companies, specifically service companies, to really help them uncover and own this unique value that they bring to the market, and then turn that into a brand strategy, marketing strategy, content strategy, operation strategy, sales strategy, basically everything that you need for your business. And so this is really um kind of my the world that I live in. I am a big branding nerd, I'm a big Superman, as you can probably see in the background there, big, big low uh Lego nerd, um, all of that. So that's kind of a little bit about who I am.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30

You know, before we dive into kind of why you guys are different, are you a Lego guy that builds something and keeps it on the shelf? Or are you the giant ADHD bucket of just pick whatever you can and build the spaceship of your choice kind of guy?

SPEAKER_00: 1:44

So I am more of the buy the set and do this for now. I still have all of my old Lego sets from when I was a kid, and it's all one big tub with all the loose Legos. And so uh trying to create a space to be able to do the I'm gonna build whatever I want. I just don't have the space right now.

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you guys anyone knows this out there that Legos are equivalently gold in price. So if you get a Lego, find it on the street, keep it. No matter what's pizza, it's uh for a long time I was buying on eBay. I'd see like these deals for like a dollar a pound. I'm like, oh, we gotta get it. And I'd buy like you know, Legos. Seriously, and they'd show up and I'd have an entire Millennium Falcon in it. I'm like, oh, that's great. Anyway, so um side note. Uh hey, that's what nerds do when they see what they like, right? You know, I'm not super mad as much. There's been too many of the characters, though I think the guy that played the Witcher, that guy was the best, best. Oh, like 100%. Yeah, but then they got rid of him the Witcher anyway. Tell me though, in the branding world, uh it is highly competitive, and and you're competing against you know outsourcing and in AI and everything in between. Uh you know, dive into why firms really should pick you and why they do pick you.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56

Yeah, so I I think this comes down to defining what brand really is. Now, most companies, most founders, entrepreneurs, when you say the word brand, they think logos, fonts, colors, design, a website, maybe they go as far as like, oh, it's a feeling or an experience. It's what I it's what I I uh experience when I work with your business. And and all of that is kind of true. It's all a component of branding. But really, when we talk brand, what we're talking about is the gut feeling that people have about your business based on every interaction with your business. So this is more than just a nice design and maybe some like a carousel that you use on LinkedIn or Instagram. This really is the uh I've heard it described this way, and I love this definition. Your brand really is the customer-facing side of your business strategy. So, whatever strategy you have building your business, the the model that you're using, how you're gonna make money, what you're bringing to the offer, um, or the offer that you bring into the market, your brand really is the customer-facing side of that. So it's it's a deep understanding of those ideal customers. Now, without getting into too much detail, because I could talk about this for three hours. Um, when you're when you're talking about customers, I use the term ideal customer because there's this target market of anyone that could buy what you're trying to sell. And then there's the subset of these are the ones that I actually want to work with because they pay more, they trust us more, they will um they're they like jive with us better. Um, you're so a brand and and specifically a brand strategy is understanding those ideal customers and creating an offer, creating an experience, creating um like marketing and sales and operational processes that attract and convert delight and keep those ideal customers. When we talk design, logos, fonts, colors, all of that, that's like if you look at brand like a an iceberg, the the design side is just the tip that you see above the water, but your brand really is everything underneath. So how the how your founder creates content on LinkedIn, how your customer service team answers the phone, how your receptionist answers the phone, if you've got a receptionist, how your sales team sends emails, how your marketing team, like the messaging that they use on your website, the type of content they they create, it all creates a brand. Um, and if you don't know those ideal customers you're going after, if you don't know the position or that differentiation that you want to hold in the market, you're not gonna create the right brand. And if you don't have the right brand, you don't attract and convert the right people. And so, yeah, all that to say, getting back to your question of like what makes us different, or like why us as opposed to AI, one AI doesn't understand that aspect of branding. Now you can I've used AI prompts of like, here's my business, create me a positioning strategy. And what it gave me was what every other branding agency says out there. Like, we'll make you stand out, we'll make you unique, we'll make it feel like you. Like every brand agency kind of tends to focus on that design side because that's where I think what happens is a lot of business owners because they see brand as design, that's what they want. When they think brand, it's like I just need a company that can make me a logo. Um, and so that's what they focus on. And and AI, when I put it into Chat GPT, and and just to give you some clarity, like I have a prompt that helps me write better prompts, so I didn't just go in and be like, create me a positioning strategy, like I had a page-long prompt to and and it and like I had it ask me qualifying questions or understandable questions to like get more out of me. And it still generated this very basic very average. And so, I mean, if you're if you're budget strapped and you don't care about blending in or you don't need revenue for a while, AI will get you a brand strategy that you'll eventually have to pay someone like me to fix in about a year or two when you realize it doesn't work. Um yeah, that's kind of what what makes it different, and like I know a lot of companies do branding. Like, there's I I know some marketing agencies that also do branding, or there's I know some website companies that even say we do branding, and so I think what's happened is we've we've diluted what a brand is, and people don't truly understand it, and so they don't get the power of a brand. When when brand is uh is one thing of many, you don't really understand, and you're really not getting the solid brand strategy. Um like let me let me use liquid death as an example, and and I usually like to use smaller businesses as examples because liquid death is one that like maybe most of your founders aren't a liquid death type of company, but it's just in the back because people know yeah, it's just yeah, it's just water. It's really what they said.

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

You know, yeah, it's crazy because you're like, who's gonna drink liquid death? Like somebody's somebody at some point said no, they're gonna love it, and they're right.

SPEAKER_00: 8:52

Well, and and that like the reason I like to use liquid death is because people immediately go to well, look at the branding. And when they say branding, they mean look at the cans, look at the name. Like it's this very weird, and and that's not the branding, that's the design, that's the name. Really, what liquid death did, if you if you know the story behind it, they saw a problem for a very specific group of people. The the guys that started Liquid Death, they went to a lot of um, like a lot of uh band like concerts and stuff like that. And so they would be in these bars and see these performers performing, and they weren't allowed to drink alcohol on stage while they were performing, so they had bottles of water in a bar that was like a Dasani or an ice mountain or any of those bottles of water that like everyone else had a can of beer and they have this very uncool looking bottle of water. So Liquid Death's brand strategy is not the name, it's not the logo, it's not how they how they position themselves. It really is their strategy we want to make water look cool. That was their brand strategy. Now, when you understand that, everything else they do makes sense, like because they were going for a very specific group of people solving a very specific problem. We have all these musicians or these people that are trying to do cool things drinking water, but water doesn't look cool. So, how do we make it cool? That was their brand strategy, which then drove what is the design of Liquid Death. Well, it's based on musicians at bars. If you look at the can of water, it looks like a can of beer. That was intentional because of who they were going after, solving what problem. That's what a brand and a brand strategy really does. You get that in place, and it makes sense for them to have a skull on the camp. Like most people look at it and like, oh, this why would I drink liquid death? You're not the target market, they don't care. Like the drive.

SPEAKER_01: 11:06

That's what a brand of Stanley's with I'll interstit me because it's I I did a fake ad for Stanley and I looked at the camera. I'm like, does water taste better in Stanley? And I'm like, fuck yeah, it does. And like that was my that's what I did for him. Um anyway. Uh so I love the in-depth I and I I really wanted you to take some time on that. Um, and I am definitely with the I'm gonna keep all that in the show because I think it's so important for businesses to understand that it's I actually, if you're just starting, do the do the AI, give me a basic approach. It is it is a smart way to start. You don't need to go drop a few thousand into branding before you've proved any of the other pieces. Um the piece that I think is most important to that, and when and and I this resonates with me is because in our own growth system, the first thing we solve is problem. What is the unique problem you solve? And you know, for my own company, it's like, man, I really need to take this another level, right? I need to say we help B2B marketing agencies grow because we're really good at doing that. But then we have all these like, you know, we have a billion-dollar architectural firm and we have a hundred million dollar software company that we do. So it's kind of like it's kind of hard to pass those up. So it's you have to really get focused because then your brand goes all around those things. So I think that's super important. Um, so thank you for sharing that. Uh let's come back to kind of the flow of this. Uh we're or simply, how do you define success?

SPEAKER_00: 12:23

For me, it's it's changed over the years. Um, but the the definition of success for me is like having the freedom to do what I want or need to do without the constraint of I have to be sitting in this chair from a certain point of day to a certain point of day. Like that's success for me. As long as I can pay my bills, live like the life that I want to live, um, I can help people solve their business problems, and I can set my own schedule. That that is success. I don't have like a, I want to be a$10 million agency. Like, I don't have those type of goals. It's more, do I have the autonomy to say, you know what? Like, and and I did this last week, like it's Friday, I don't feel like working. I'm done for the day. Like, that's the freedom to me that feels successful.

SPEAKER_01: 13:17

Captain of your calendar is a is a is an often pick for that. And and and I think uh, you know, along your way of your journey, uh talk about your journey a little bit, just because you said you've been doing this for a lot of companies. This you've lived this, this is your whole uh life, which means you have a high passion for, otherwise, you would have you know become a basket weaver or something else. But uh nothing wrong with basket weaving, just a course. Um, there used to be a market for it, and probably it's just it's not pit anyway. Yeah. Tell me about your journey. And and so you could achieve that success you just defined. What's been the biggest, you know, kind of metaphoric tie you had to cut to get there?

SPEAKER_00: 13:52

So the so I I've been in the marketing and branding world for about 20 years. Really, since I graduated college, every job that I've had has been some form of branding marketing. It's all kind of built up to me launching Shift, which ended up happening by accident. Um, I was really just trying to, I was the head of marketing for a B2B company. Um, took them from like 14 million to by the time I left, it was about 60 million. Um, yeah, it was a big, it was a big jump. Um, and it was in a rural part of the state. I was like, man, I just I'm looking for a new job, like uh I want to move to a different area. Um, so I got on LinkedIn and was starting to apply. And at that point, LinkedIn had just kind of started doing the you can create content on our platform now. So I was like, hey, I'm a marketer, I know how to do this, so I'm gonna start creating content showing people I know marketing and branding, and maybe that will help me stand out as I apply for these other businesses. And what ended up happening was I'd have all these founders hitting me up in the DMs, like, hey, I can't afford to hire a marketer right now, but could I pay your company, your agency to do XYZ?

SPEAKER_01: 15:08

And I'm like, Yes, the agency. Now you got to be a attorney solicitor, like, hey, I know you get hit.

SPEAKER_00: 15:18

But but like it was I was like, yeah, I was like, Yes, the agency I totally have with the packages I totally already have put together, I can totally help you. So it the business actually did start by accident. I was not intending to start a company, and after I started getting enough of those, I was like, there's a there's a business here, like I need to I need to like get serious about this. So the problem was, um, you know, I know this this podcast has cut the tie, and like, what's the tie that like you gotta cut to damn it? Tell me the tie, Jason. Get to it. Yes, yes, I know. So when I when I started the company, it was on the side of my full-time job. So I was working nights, weekends, kind of doing smart. That's a great way to start the business. Is have it. It really is. Yeah, it really is because I can have to worry about how am I gonna pay my own bills. So I could be, I was very picky with who I took on as clients.

SPEAKER_01: 16:15

And what I love about that, to interrupt you, I think people should understand that the best part is there's something about making a few thousand bucks on the side, it feels so much richer, like that first$300 you got, whatever it was, feels so much more empowering than the maybe bigger, much bigger paycheck you're getting on the other side. And you're just like, why do I love this$2K? I remember my first one was like$299. And I was like, I love this$299 so much more than that$20,000. Right. It's a it's it's a great feeling that is that is the little addictive hook that that gets your brain going, how can I do this myself? Because it feels so much better. So I don't interrupt, man.

SPEAKER_00: 16:53

Yeah, no, no, no. So so when I was starting the company, there was a few other people on LinkedIn that I had been following that were kind of in the same stage that I was, um, starting a company on the side of their full-time job. And it, you know, it was either you know, like website developer, ad company, like all this kind of stuff. Um, and I was watching some of these other companies like really, really take off. Um, and shift was kind of just trudging along. Um, some of it is because we do brand, and most people don't understand what brand really is. Um, there was a lot more education that needed to be done than hey, if you need a website, I can build you a website. Very different model of business tangible style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's you don't need a lot of education to understand I need a website. Um, so what was happening was they they were growing and I and my business wasn't. And so I was like picking their brain, so to speak, of like how do I crow shift? And one of the biggest pieces of advice I heard from multiple business owners was you need to get a business partner who who like can help you build this. And so for years I had it in my mind, this can only be successful if I have a business partner. Like I need someone who can come alongside and do some stuff to free me up so I can do uh other aspects of the business. And that mindset kind of held us back for probably the good first what, like three years, two, three years of the company. Um, now I did end up finding a guy that I uh didn't come in as a full partner for a while, but like was hey, I will give you profit share. I will help you like you take over this side of the business, I'll handle this side, and like we'll work together to build this thing. And um, nothing against him, great guy. Um, but it was it was like having two heads to the company, um, and two very different visions of where we wanted to go. And because brand strategy was supposed to be his side of the company, even though I had done brand strategy more, like it was I found the wrong type of per.

SPEAKER_01: 19:18

Like well, you copied yourself as opposed to some of the I did, yeah, yeah. And that's a bad plot. You don't want to, I don't know about you, but I can't stand people like me.

SPEAKER_00: 19:26

So, yeah, well, and personality-wise, yeah, personality-wise, very different, but like I can do brand strategy, and in in a lot of cases, I was doing brand strategy far better than he was. You need some brand strategy, yeah, yeah. And and really what I needed was more of the operational person to come in and be like, I say, hey, I want to be able to do this, and they build out the system to make that happen. That's really what I should have been looking for. Um, but that that feeling, that need of like, I need a business partner to make this work, kind of, and and again, it was the wrong decision of of what type of business partner I needed. Um, but that that like mindset really held us back. And it wasn't until I bought him out of the company that the company actually took off. Um, and we started generating more revenue, we started landing larger clients, we started getting better results. Um, and so it was this idea of this limitation of I can't do it, I don't have what it takes to make this thing work, and I need someone else to help me make it work, is really what what hindered me. Now, that doesn't mean I haven't had business coaches and you know, I'm not like I have all the answers and I'm right. That's not that's not the mindset to have either. But when you when you have this fundamental idea that like it can't just be me, I need someone else to do it. That's gonna be the wrong mindset to come into your your own business. And it was one of those cases where I had started the business and allowed him to buy into it, um, which is something I would tell most business owners, don't do like that's your tie you had to cut, was that that belief.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

And how many times we do this that we we we go on a hypothesis based on a foundation that's crack? And and and that is like that is the most dangerous, like is this thing uh possible, and it's in every aspect of it. It goes on now. We'll discuss that maybe towards the end. But I think that principle is always look at your assumptions of it. Just advice those obviously not you, but like just kind of talking to the audience, challenge the assumptions of which you're operating on, because there's likely sometimes when you get stuck, you don't realize the glass box you put around yourself by doing it and you don't see it, no matter how many times you run into it. And uh the the example I say in my own personal life, because I I live this cut-the-tie idea, is which was with ADHD, is that's just me. But then you know, you have all these challenges with focus and relationships and all these other things you do, and you're like, you know, that's the time I'm cutting this year. I'm tired of all, and then when you break through it, you're like, Holy shit, I'm so pissed I didn't do this at 13 years old. Yeah. But so you get clarity, right? You realize, you know, moving maybe past that, you're like, what is the actual gap I need to fill? Right. You know, and maybe take that. Did you did you quickly identify that as part of that, you know, three-year experiment and then be like, oh no, what I actually need is this, this, and this. I just need an employee. I don't need to pay anybody for that. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 22:35

And and that's kind of where it came down to was we've got employees now instead of a business partner to do to fill in those gaps that I just can't do, that it's not my strength, it's not something that I'm gonna like. I think growing up, and and maybe it was just my generation, I don't know, uh like younger generation, how uh kind of like what they were they were told or whatever, but like we were kind of taught like focus on your weaknesses and try to make them better. Um, and this is something that I've kind of adjusted probably in my 30s. I'm in my 40s now, so it's about 10 years ago, where I kind of had this. I I forget if it was a uh coach I was working with or a book I read, I don't remember where this came from, but like um this idea of trying to improve your weaknesses, taking something I'm not good at, like realistically, you might become marginally better at it, but it's not gonna be the type of life-changing thing that if you took your strength and built your strength up, how that can change your life. And so if it's a weakness that is hindering your life, if it's a weakness that's going to break or or destroy what you're building, like if you're cheating on your wife, if you're out there consuming pornography every single day, if you're like if if it's a weakness that could really destroy you, yes, work on it because that like you're you're gonna have an implode moment if you don't.

SPEAKER_01: 24:05

Yeah, it was a it was a weakness as much as uh that's a like a care character issue. Well, it's a negative, right? It's like it's not like something I'm not good at, it's something that's actually hurting you. Right. So, like you have a drug problem, we just stop that, right? There's a difference between like I don't do content well versus I can't stop drugs.

SPEAKER_00: 24:20

Completely different, and and everyone else can't go do those drugs for you. Right, right. And I think a lot of times we kind of group the weakness into the problem and say, I have to work on this because I'm not good at it. When really, I mean, for me, operational-wise, I'm not the greatest. Like I can create automations, I can do it, I'm I'm like this bare minimum kind of I can get by with it, but I'm never gonna create or have the ideas that someone who is an operational person um will have. And so I can focus time trying to get marginally better at it, or I can take the strength that I have and try to get even better at that. Which one's gonna make the biggest impact? And so that's that's kind of the the mindset I have now is like I could try to learn this and do it myself, or I can hire someone, or I could just talk to a consultant that like could just be like Jason, do boom, boom, boom, and your team will be fine. Like that's that's more the mindset that I go into with now is I don't have to have all the answers. I don't have to be able to do everything. I focus on what I do well, and I either outsource or hire what I don't.

SPEAKER_01: 25:38

And you're describing a book called, you know, who not how, right? Uh you don't figure out how to do it, figure out who should go do it, and then you can actually build a business. Now there's revenues and things like that that come behind it. Um and it's impressive. Like, you know, as an agency owner, I use offshore teams and we use a bunch of technology, but we're in a different space than yours. Uh so I avoid W-2s just because they're expensive. And uh a lot of the gaps I I personally find offshore to be just as effective and you know, a hundredth of the cost. Um and they're totally fine with week-to-week PayPals. Like it's no, there's no additional eight and a half percent you give to the government, right? You know, so uh I I think though what you're describing from uh from a tie-to-cut, let me just to kind of bring it forth is you know, challenge those initial assumptions, and yours was I needed this specific type of partner to go. And you're like, no, actually, I don't want to need to do this, build gaps that are weaknesses of what I couldn't do myself. But but the biggest piece was to realize I think you didn't need to do it yourself.

unknown: 26:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 26:33

And I think that was a that's actually you had the right step initially. Uh, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad because I still struggle five years in now with letting it go to other people, like though I want them to. I oh yeah, I'm like, no, I don't know. It's finding the right person. So uh, but I I want to move forward a little bit on this. Uh-huh. You know, since you've made that change, maybe describe the impact that's had, not so much for you, because I'm I I think it's pretty obvious that's helped you kind of free your mind, Captain Calendar, but what's the impact been to your customer?

SPEAKER_00: 27:04

I think to our customer, like the the biggest impact is that we're getting better results for them right now. Um, because there isn't this um dual layer of what you should be like what the client should be doing. It's all kind of like I'm the one that builds the brand strategies, and then I've got team members that kind of build the marketing, do the design, like do all the rest of that. Um and so they have seen better results since then, like since we cut that tie. Um, because they're like I've got more experience doing this and and more of a uh let me explain it this way like every company that I've worked for as an employee, when it came to marketing, and and I'm the more I talked to marketers, the more I realized that this is very rare. Um, they weren't concerned on like MQLs and SQLs and like how many leads did you actually get in and what are the impressions. The companies that I worked for um were smaller companies, but their biggest thing was we're bringing you in to do marketing and we better see revenue change. That's all we care about. Whatever you need, if we're seeing revenue go up, we will give you what you need, um, or like what you ask for type thing. Because if if you're generating more revenue for us, you're giving me a tip to an idea, right?

SPEAKER_01: 28:29

Yeah, to cap easy math. It's a capital machine to most people. Exactly, exactly. And so that I'll tell you what, but in your world of B2B services, that's difficult because oftentimes the sales cycles are long and marketing is a component of a wedge, not if your product sucks, your services are hard. Like it it's hard to do the ROI attribution to that, and and that's a big challenge, specifically in branding, because then you're like, how do I approve ROI with something that's you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:58

So well piece, yeah. And I I think I think that's where really what makes shift different is we look at brand as the full piece, not the small piece. So when we come in and we do brand strategy, we are fixing your offer.

SPEAKER_01: 29:15

If you've got a shit off, see where you guys do a more consultative approach. So you you and I have a very similar alignment on our agency, which is you want brand, you need these things. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 29:27

So this ties really you really get destroyed with yeah. Well, really, the the mindset that we have is this is brand, it owns everything in your company. So if it's not like sorry, look at Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_01: 29:46

My pleasure, my you know, like their brand is first. Everything inside of it is around what that brand mission statement is, and they are a really good example of that.

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

And and that's how brand should operate is I create like. Like, and this is this is where most people build backwards. They build they build a product or a service. This is what I'm gonna bring to the market. And then they're like, who needs it? And that's that's backward. And then then they start working down to well, now I need a design, I need a website. And then maybe they get down to, well, crap, what what makes us different? What's unique about us? What we do is we come in and we say, we need to figure out what's unique about what you want to bring to the market. It's like the liquid death. They didn't come in and say, we want to create canned water. They came in and said, we want to make water look cool. That's the unique value we're gonna bring to the market. Now, how do we do that? We do that by not improving water. In fact, for me, I don't think liquid death tastes better than the generic stuff I get at Walmart. Like, I actually like the generic stuff more than I love the tap water.

SPEAKER_01: 30:55

I'll be honest with you. I like good old fashioned tap water. Actually, my favorite is after a hose hose water.

SPEAKER_00: 31:04

Yes. So so they didn't revolutionize the product. They came in and said, We're gonna create this unique value, and now we're gonna figure out how do we do that. Most companies come in and say, Here's what I want to do. Now, how do I make this different? It's a very different mindset. And so when we come in, we're looking at that, in fact, when we work with a client, the very first workshop we do is we're gonna go through your offer, we're gonna pull it apart, and we're gonna say what sucks about it, what doesn't work about it. One of the questions I ask every company I work with is five years from now, of everything that you sell, what do you not want to be selling anymore? And when they are like, Well, we don't really like doing this, or this doesn't really this is really difficult and it doesn't make us more money. Great, you're gonna stop doing that, and we're not gonna build a brand around that. Like, so we start with what is this offer? Let's pull it apart, let's find like we had a client. Um, this might explain it a little better, give some tangibility to it. We had a client, I think you've done a great, great job explaining it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:13

So no confusion what you're doing right now. Like, uh, I'm zoned in. I'm just listening honestly, this is just a free consulting session. I'm not even sure this podcast will air. I'm just gonna take it.

SPEAKER_00: 32:21

That's that's what I hear every time I'm on a podcast. But um, anyways, like we have this client that sells website development, MVP development, and like any of the tech stack you need around it. So, like if you if you want to be able to send an email newsletter to people that sign up on your website, let's say this company will go in, they will figure out what platform that email newsletter needs to be on to work with your website, to work with every like your CRM and everything. They will go in, they will test it to make sure that it works, and they will determine like, hey, if it's active campaign that you need, you need their growth level in order for all this to work. And here's what that monthly cost is going to be on top of our development costs for your website and your MVP, all this kind of stuff. So they they had a great product, like their offer, they they had great clients, big clients. They were trying to break into the US market, they were having a real big, big trouble doing that. Um, and they were spending like a month building these custom proposals, like multiple calls with the team to figure out what is it that you actually want to build, what do you need built, blah, blah, blah. And then creating these proposals that would get ignored or turned out. And they were like, We we don't know what's going on, we need help. So the very first thing we did was like, let's dive into your process, understand your offer. And out of that workshop came an idea for what I call a paid discovery offer, where instead of doing that one month of discovery for free, what if we bundled that up into its own offer and you sell that for like I think they're selling it for like the smaller version is a thousand and the larger version is 1900. Really, what this offer is, if you peel back the layer and actually look at it, it is all the questions and the information they needed to prepare a proposal. They're charging for it.

SPEAKER_01: 34:20

And what they're doing isn't there's 20 years consulting for KPMG as and the PWC's extensions of the world. You win the assessment, you win the work. It that is a that is that is it. So you you you but you have to win a vested assessment, which means they have to give you some money, and all you got to know is what their signing authority is, and you smash underneath it to pick out time travel and a little bit of yours because you're just basically doing information discovery to give them the roadmap they need to go sell it. And I I I agree with you a hundred percent. Um, and when you have a lead magnet that does like that initial 45 minutes top of level stuff, we do this, and it says, here's your this is what I would do next to win that assessment, the full you're you are spot on. And and just conscious of time, I I want to make sure you know you guys have got to get all the Jason here. Uh, just because you know, I'm gonna follow up with you too, because some of the things you're describing are very, very close to where I am, and and I'm I am definitely um capabilities are here.

unknown: 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:15

I'm gonna go I salty side, not this other part. So I'll be following you. Tell me something today, though. What to so just kind of fast forward and and we can we could probably well, I'm sure we'll go follow up episode because you know there's actually another podcast, and I invite you to do this in much. Um I really love this, Jason. I mean it. Uh I'd I'm glad the person behind you cancels. So we can go on and it's like sure, it's like divine intervention. No one ever cancels. This guy did. I'm like, oh I can all right. So you're a long podcast today. All right, long enough of that. Uh what is the top biggest tie you you are struggling to cut today? Ooh. This, by the way, this is my business development question. I hope you answer it in a certain way so I can help you. I figured. My good question, because like then here you are today, why aren't you cutting it? So what is what is the tie?

SPEAKER_00: 36:06

Yeah, yeah. I would I honestly that one wasn't off the list. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't, so I didn't think about this in advance. Um I I think the biggest the biggest tie, which is still a little bit back to to what I mentioned before, is I still have this mindset of I'll just do it to get it done rather than I will hire someone to do it for me. Um, and some of this, like and and you kind of ask like, why haven't you taught you cut that tie? Some of this is out of practicality. Um, I most uh I've shared this on LinkedIn, but most people, if if they're not part of my audience, they don't know this. Like um, I have I am the primary caregiver for an aging parent. Um, and so there are some limitations of what I can do for the business, even financially, because like we uh we're very limited on what we can do right now because of doctor's appointments and all the all this kind of stuff. So um some of that tie is very um, there just isn't the finances to do everything, like to hire more people.

SPEAKER_01: 37:30

And that's actually a valid piece, but you're like at some point when that 10k a month that I'm spending on my parent comes out, you're gonna be like, I'm hiring somebody.

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

Yes, yes. And so so there's there's kind of that that balance for us right now. It's a very weird, like I've had people ask me, like, what's the what's the biggest problem? And I'm like, I don't have the time to take on more clients right now.

SPEAKER_01: 37:55

Here's the uh very space, very little. You you could answer that question since you uh euthanasia is not legal for a parent yet. Um I have to spend all this money. Okay. But you laughed at that, which tells me you're a dark humor guy. 100%. He's not laughing at dad jokes, people. He's taking care of a parent that's aging, dark jokes, dark humor right in the zone. So if you call him, send him a dark joke or dark humor joke, but it might have sounded anywhere. Uh let me uh let me just kind of go with this. Uh, there's two questions I'll have left outside of the shameless plug question, of course. Uh what uh where in your timeline, if you could go back, would you go and what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_00: 38:42

Honestly, I think I would go back to the start of the company. Um biggest thing I would do is focus on, and this is advice that I give to every client now. I would focus on one offer for one client, um, and just do that until I was seen as the expert on that thing. Yeah. So instead of bringing in like, hey, I need a business partner so that we can kind of because really what happened is we were starting to do this dual, like, we do brand strategy and we do LinkedIn content. And it became very hard for people to understand what Shift did. And when I finally was like, Nope, we're only gonna do brand strategy, I'm gonna do it, we're gonna get the results that I want. That's when the company took off. So, like, I've actually done a LinkedIn post and a video on this. Like, if I started the company over, what would I do differently? It would be that screw everything else. We're doing brand strategy, that's all we're doing. I'm leaning into that hardcore. We kind of took us a while to get to that point of like ditch everything else.

SPEAKER_01: 39:49

This is what this is what we yeah, and sometimes though there's a there's a learning that happens to discover what that is. Uh I'd actually even argue it you might as just do that now because where you are, how you described it, uh, and what I find is on a lot of agencies, specifically solopreneurs would say with an extended offshore team, they can only handle at best 20 clients a month. Uh there's just not enough time because the intimacy of because you've you've bought yourself a job or you've created your own job, basically, is what happens on most services, marketing services companies. And that's okay. Because that means you just got to find 20 that pay you a you know a good amount of money, a thousand to three thousand a month, and you've got an awesome lifestyle business, an awesome one. And if you've known for one thing, you'll be able to do that for a very long time. Uh and and quite honestly, what I'm gonna follow up with you is I'm actually going back to that as well. We've gone from full agency to just we focus on LinkedIn to even I'm saying, how about I just focus on marketing agencies helping them with the business growth path because they really struggle with their own growth. They know how to do their one thing good, everything else shit. So you and I will take that offline. That is the most solid advice. Uh you know, I've said this in other shows. The the best answer ever, by the way, was the guy just kind of looked at his cup of coffee and said, Well, I wish I would have gotten a latte instead of black coffee. And he's like, But I'm gonna fix that right after the show. And I was like, Wow, that's a guy, that's a 20-year-old in the moment. Anyway, uh that's a great answer. I'm like, man, I that's I'm gonna use that answer uh in the future. Uh because you can use it every day. You're like, tomorrow I'm gonna fix that. Anyway, all right. The last question I have for you is uh, you know, if there was a question I should have asked you though, and we've had a fantastic conversation around all this. So I've I've gained a lot, thank you. Um what is that question and how how do you answer it?

SPEAKER_00: 41:38

That's that's a good one. I think so. We talked a lot about brand, brand strategy, what what is it, blah, blah, blah. I think the the question that might have helped your your audience a little uh more is like, how do you get started building that brand, like figuring out you those ideal customers, how you skip. Um, and really the the answer I have for that, um, so we we have a framework that we take clients through. Um, and some of this maybe doesn't work when you try to do it yourself because you really do need in a lot of cases what I've seen with every business that I've worked with is they don't see in their own business what makes them different. Because your differentiator really should be something that you do 99.99% of the time, you do it well, it becomes so much a part of the business that it doesn't feel special unless you're an outsider looking in and being like, I've never seen another company do that.

SPEAKER_01: 42:45

So all the one of the challenges with that relates to scale because often you are the difference, like you were and you become a bottleneck of your own company. And so I know my own thinking and how I solve consultative problems and pieces like that is a differentiator because I do it with the so I focus on technology, or that a lot can't. How that's a hard one, though, because now, like, God, I can't scale past my own time, and I like to my counter too.

SPEAKER_00: 43:10

And I I think that right there, that answer right there is the bottleneck. Your differentiator is not you, and that's so radical. You get on LinkedIn and everyone's like, You just be more of yourself, that's what makes you different. No, because if you were to leave the company, you're telling me that company does nothing different. So then it's not a company, it's you, and that is a whole you. So so I tell clients this all the time: your differentiator is not you, it's not your personality, it's not your team, it's not the fact that you care more than others. And I don't care if you think no one else in the industry actually cares about their clients. They do. Um, they might show it differently than you do, and maybe they suck at it, but every company is gonna say, we actually care about our clients. So it's not a differentiator. Really, what you need to look for is something that you guys do that's exceptionally different. It's a process, it's a it's a product, it's it's the deliverable, it's the repeated result that you get. It's something that can't be replicated that is not you. Now, it could be a mindset, it could be a framework that you take people through, um, which might feel like you because hey, this is my expertise, I develop that, but that IP is what actually makes you different, not you. And and when you when you have those outside eyes on it, and you can have someone say, look, this thing that you have here, like I'm I'm working with a client right now. We just did um their offer workshop. So, like, I don't know what their differentiator is yet. We haven't gotten to that point, but he walked me through the process that they use. It's a recruitment agency. He walked me through the process that they use, and I've worked with like five or six other recruitment agencies. So I've done research on probably a hundred recruitment agencies to understand their uh process and their differentiators and stuff because we do a lot of competitive analysis. You need to do competitive analysis to understand your differentiator. Um, but like he started walking through a process that I'm like, in the hundred agencies, the the five that I've worked with and the others that I've researched for those five, no one is doing that thing. That is what we need to highlight in your brand. That is what we need to build everything around. And so when it comes to, I'm gonna maybe revise my question, when it comes to that differentiator, what you want to look for is what you do exceptionally well, what your ideal customers want or need, and what your competitors can't or won't do. If you can find the intersection of those three things, you have something that you can build an entire brand and marketing and sales and operational strategy around that will make people, when they look at your company, when they're on your website, when they're looking at your content, all of your competitors will be positioned over here, trying to be better, trying to be like, oh, we're the best in the industry, which is positioning-wise saying, hey, everyone else you know in the industry, we're aligned just with them. Maybe we're just a little bit higher. Your business over will be over here, and people will look at you and be like, I can't get that thing anywhere else. I can only get it from you. And when that is the case, you can charge whatever the hell you want, and people will pay because it's like there's no one else I can go to to get this. It is the legal version of a monopoly. You are the only one to offer it because your competitors can't along to it. So, like, I love to use this example when we talk differentiation. I could show up to all of my workshops dressed as a clown. I guarantee you, I would be the only brand strategist that does that 100%. I could build an entire brand around I am the clown and I will show up with a red nose. Like, I could do that. Is that something my ideal customers would buy? No. Does it matter to them that I wear a red nose and a clown wig? No. So while that might make me different, it's not really it my main differentiator. It's not the unique value I bring to the market because ideal customers don't care. So it's what do you do well? What do your ideal customers actually care about? And what can your competitors can't or won't do? That is what you build your brand strategy around. That is what you build everything, your sales, your marketing, your operations, your how who you hire, all of that should sta, even your design, all of that should stem from what is this differentiator, this unique thing we're bringing to the market? Because ultimately, and I heard another brand strategist said this, and they said it in a way that I better than I've ever said it. If the bit if the thing that you're bringing to the market isn't unique, if you're not doing something different, you don't really have a business. Because a business is in the business of bringing something unique to the market. And if you don't have something unique that people can't get anywhere else, you will forever struggle with sales, with marketing, with hiring. You will forever struggle with that of like, how do we position ourselves? What what verbiage should we put on the website? You understand that differentiator? Literally, like the clients I work with typically don't have a marketer on staff, and they are founders that don't get marketing at all. We will uncover their differentiation and no joke, they will have figured out pieces of their marketing without me. We'll say, Hey, this is what makes you different. And they're like, Well, shouldn't our design like be something like this then? Yes. Yes, it should. Or like, hey, my LinkedIn content, I should change it this way then, huh? Yes. Before I can even say it, you should, because now you look at it. Now you've got the the North Star that says this is what we should do. And it all starts to click in place when you have that North Star.

SPEAKER_01: 49:38

It's like uh, it's not that they're in dark, if there's just too many doors open and you shall the ones that don't matter. And so just walk through that one and it should be clear. Uh just Jason, thank you so much. Uh, how should somebody get a hold of you? Who should get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_00: 49:50

Yeah, yeah. Biggest way would be LinkedIn. Um, I post content there Monday through Friday. It's all about what we talked about today. Um, I also have an email newsletter I send out every Monday that takes my LinkedIn content and goes deeper. So if you want the worksheets, if you want that practical help, that is on the website. Um, you can subscribe to that or just email me or or DM me on LinkedIn. I'm more than happy to have conversations um around brand strategy and how to make your business and make your product easier to sell.

SPEAKER_01: 50:25

You rock, thank you so much for coming on today. It's in this has been incredibly insightful for me. I I love the audience, but it's been helpful to me. So that's all that really matters. Awesome. Uh listen, if you're still here in the show, uh thanks for getting to this point. Jason is full of knowledge, and you know, if this helps you kind of cut a tie to to figure out what you should do next, by all means, you know, get get hold of Jason at shift.agency or through LinkedIn and it's uh Jason V A N A. Just Google it. You'll find it pretty easily. He's got a few followers, to say it that way. Um Thank you. Once again, get out there. Go cut a tie to something holding your back. But first, you have to define what that success looks like for you. Otherwise, you will not be cutting the right ties to chase it.