SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast. Hello, I am your host, Thomas Elfrick, and I'm on a mission to help you cut ties to whatever it is holding you back from your success. But you have to define that success yourself. You have to own it. If you own your success, when you get to that definition of it and you've achieved it, it'll it'll have meaning. It's supposed to mean a bit hollow. And today we're going to meet with Greg Rochet. Did you expect that rolling R?

SPEAKER_01: 0:24

I do. I do. I like that. No. I don't get that a lot. But uh yeah, definitely excited to be here, looking forward to this conversation.

SPEAKER_00: 0:31

I appreciate you uh hopping in here with you know on the show. Um take a moment, introduce yourself, who you are, and what it is you do.

SPEAKER_01: 0:38

Yeah, Greg Rocher. I there's a couple things, um, and I think they're both relevant to this conversation. So most of the time my customers say things like, we don't know if we're paying our employees enough or if we're paying them competitively, or we have people leaving our company, we're not really sure why. And I have a background in corporate human resources, HR, uh focused on employee engagement, retention, compensation, benefits, what we would call total rewards. Did that for a number of years, over 20 years, and then in the last year and a half, started my own one-person consulting company to help my clients and customers answer those questions. So I come out of the, again, corporate space, work for large companies, big, huge US companies in healthcare and real estate and cybersecurity, always helping to answer those questions. And I think one of the things that helps me, I think, stand out a little bit in there is I I have been in those companies. I've been inside those companies. Now I'm consulting with those companies. And I'm doing that for a lot of companies that are maybe not as big. They still have those problems, they still have those questions, but they don't have the resources to hire someone like me with the experience that I have to do that. So I will go in on a fractional basis or a consultative basis and help get them set up and answer some of those questions so that they are able to keep their employees, keep them paid appropriately, uh market competitively, and just really help them sort through some things that they otherwise wouldn't have the resources to do. So that's that's what I do in my company called Retention and Rewards Partners. Um and then I think secondarily to that is I teach people how to grow their professional networks. So I teach people how to be better networkers. And those two things actually really go together. Uh, they don't sound like they do, but um, you know, there's there's a lot there. And so we'll get into some of that hopefully, because I think a lot of that is irrelevant, especially for people who are thinking about how to cut the tie.

SPEAKER_00: 2:56

So um what's the trigger? Uh attrition? Sure. We can't hire the right people. What usually brings you in? What what's usually the CEOs saying, hey, they asked this question, and yeah, then ACR going, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

Right. Some well, well, I think sometimes it's it's attrition, it's turnover, or it's we we are having a hard time hiring people, or it's simply uh we don't know. You know, in in most companies, uh compensation or the payroll expense, the salaries and the bonuses and things that you give to your employees in exchange for their work is the single biggest expense on your PL for most companies. And a lot of CEOs, CFOs, CHROs don't really know exactly if they're paying too much, not paying enough. They don't have any sense of what the rest of the market looks like. And so they would get somebody like me, who's done this for most of his career, to go in and do that analysis and say, well, here's where you are, here's where your competitors are, here's what you could potentially do, here's what how you can better allocate that money, because again, it's usually the biggest expense. You don't want to increase it a lot unless you really have to. And at the same time, how you spend it can lead to better outcomes in terms of engaging and retaining your employees.

SPEAKER_00: 4:22

Uh are you worried in the future that's just gonna be an AI agent that's connected to data sources they pay to have access to?

SPEAKER_01: 4:32

Potentially. I think that uh it's very realistic. And I mean, I've thought along those lines for years now that you get to a point where you've got an agent that you're just saying, here's the situation, here's you know, the role, here's what we're you know, paying, how competitive are we? And you could get an answer that would say, here's what you need to do. I think the challenge is when it comes to pay, people aren't really good at talking about it. People aren't really good at hearing about it. Uh, individual employees always think they should get paid more. Uh, I've talked to maybe two people in my entire career, myself being one of them, that ever said, I think I'm overpaid. Um and so what you need is somebody to be able to take that information that you could potentially get from AI and then translate that to another human being and explain, here's why we're paying you what we're paying you. And by the way, the conversation doesn't stop there because they're not going to be satisfied with that. The conversation is really then how do you turn that into, and if you'd like to increase your earnings or what you get from this company, here are the ways to develop your career and grow into a larger role, a bigger scope, something that adds value to the company so that then we provide you with a higher level of compensation. So it's really more how do you talk about this and give people the context and help them understand it that sets you apart from just getting an answer from an AI agent that that would spit out a number and and maybe some explanation.

SPEAKER_00: 6:05

Yeah. I I I worry, I mean, I worry about it. I still think like even in your um your business, right? You those just become tools that help you take the next step to do it a little bit better, uh, or a lot bit better for better. Um talk about your own journey a little bit. You know, uh you know you you came from that stuff, but maybe dive in a little bit, you know, focusing on the man, for me to get going, I had to stop or start doing, you know, what was the metaphoric tie?

SPEAKER_01: 6:28

Yeah, I I have wanted to, I don't want to say work for myself, but over past 10, 12 years, have kind of had this idea of I I want to have either a side business or a business that I can run or a group of businesses I can run that I'm in charge of. And I not because I'm sitting out here like I want to grow these huge businesses and sell them and make millions of dollars. For me, that's never sort of been the thing. It's been to get to a point where the thing I'm doing is something I want to be doing. It's bringing in money, it's paying for my life, and it gives me the flexibility to do a lot of things during my day. And so I've tinkered around with a lot of different things, right? I'm I've always had side hustles, always had things. You know, at one point, my family, we owned a food truck, I've owned a franchise business, I've had all these little things, all while working my day job, my full-time job. And um really got to the point about a year and a half ago, um, working for one of the largest healthcare organizations in the country and had a really great career there. Uh, had continued to grow in terms of my scope, my responsibility, my size of my team, my income, all of those things. And really just there was a bunch of changes in the organization where my boss, who I really enjoyed working for, moved, went on to a new role, which was fine. No, no, no issue there. And some conversations went on about me taking on that role. Then there was a lot of organizational changes. A new person came in that would be over me. And I really was just at the point, it was like, I don't really want to go through dealing with building up this relationship again, you know, spending all this time to reposition myself within the company. I felt a little bit like I'd been told one thing was gonna happen and then a different thing happened. And that's fine. That's the company's decision. I don't begrudge them for that, but really like highlighted to me, you're always going to be subject to everybody else's agenda or priorities as if you're gonna be in these large companies. And that for me was really the time I was like, I'm done with that. I I hit an age, I hit a point in my life where I felt like I had enough experience to do this on my own. Again, I've been thinking about doing this for a while, but I said this is the time to do it. I don't want to, again, I'm not gonna spend another few years trying to, again, build up my sort of organizational capital or my reputational capital within this organization. So you do get ageism and you get well, sure. Right. Right. I and since I'm making C C suite, you're probably out. Yeah. So this was this was, you know, something that I've been thinking for a long time. This seemed like the time to do it. And um I really just it it was so clear to me because I this this person who had been moved into this role sort of above me, um, said, you know, you can interview for this job, which by the way, like her boss and some other bosses and my three previous boss had all told me, you're gonna take on this new job. Like you're gonna get this promotion. And it was gonna be a big role. And I was really sort of conflicted at first because I was I thought, do I really want this? Do I want to keep going up and up and up? It's just more work, it's just more stress. And I uh told myself, I was like, if I get it, I gotta take it because I know that you you don't get handed an opportunity like this in my career in what I do very often.

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

I went through, I had to interview for it, even though people were like, Yeah, you're gonna get the job. We recommend you, you're our favorite candidate, and to go through interviews for it. And the new person who came in uh talked to me for like 30 minutes about this role. So I was like, I'm either a shoe-in or I'm not getting this. But I told myself, I said, if I don't get this role, I'm done. I'm gone. Like I'm that's it. That's the sign. It's time to go. So that was the thing, that was like the trigger point. And I can remember I walked into her office um one day and I said, Hey, I haven't heard anything about this role. Um, I was just wondering where you're at with it. Are you going to hire somebody? Like, where are you in interviewing? And she said, uh, yeah, I've got down to my final candidates and you're not one of them. And just like that. And and I was like, huh. It's weird because most of the time, uh whenever we have people that, you know, when in my experience, when I saw people kind of get passed over or not get the job, there was this sort of conversation that was like, but you know, you're really critical to the team. We really want you here. It's important for, you know, transition and and you know, uh continuity that we keep you in this role. And so whatever we can do to keep you, we really want you're a poor part of the team. I didn't hear any of that in that conversation. So to me, I was like, all right, it's time to get out. Like, I'm not gonna be part of welcome on this team anyway, this new world. So I was like, that's it. So I left the office, I called my wife, I was like, I guess I'm quitting. She's like, Oh, sounds good. So we, so I, you know, like on the following Monday, I just I turned in my resignation. And again, in my role in compensation, a lot of times somebody quits, especially somebody at like an executive level, and then they come down to me and they say, Hey, we got to put together something to save this person. Like, we don't want them to leave, like we got to retain this person. And I watched that happen throughout my career where people got, you know, bonuses or something to stay, or hey, we'll give you this or that, whatever you want. We just don't want you to leave the organization. So I I resign. And, you know, again, this individual's like, okay, let's work out a transition plan. And and so how valuable was I yeah. So, so I, you know, that to me, again, really just said like there was no uh I made the right decision because I knew that it was going to be a real struggle to again develop that relationship and and build that. And like I said, that's that person's decision. You know, I I don't have hard feelings. I'm not like, oh boy, I wish I would have stayed. I'm actually glad I didn't stay because that company went through an incredibly difficult last year and a half with a lot of things that happened, and it would have just been crazy to have stayed there. Um, so I got out and started my own thing, right? And I had, it was funny the day after I put in my resignation, I got a text from a networking contact of mine who said, Hey, do you know anybody who could be like a fractional head of total rewards for a company here in Denver where I live? And I said, Yeah, me. And she was like, Oh my God, you're you're available. And I said, Yeah, I just quit yesterday. And she's like, That's great. So I got my first client in my nuke business that I hadn't even launched the day after I resigned. And that was all that's like you know, line intervention timing right there. I mean, it's it's it, yeah. And the thing about that is, and this this kind of ties into what I talk a lot about with uh on LinkedIn and in my newsletter and stuff. I talk all about growing your network before you need it. Oh so I had I had been, I have over my, you know, again, for a last decade or so, been really focused on how do you grow your network and how do you do that even if you don't need a job and why it's important. And for me, some of these people already knew I was thinking about leaving and they already knew what I could do because I'd kept up with them. They were people who sort of are my target customer, and they were just people that I knew and and we talked on and off. So this person who reached out to me, when somebody said, Can you come in and do total rewards? Or do you know somebody that can do total rewards? I was the first person that came into her head because she knew that's what I did. We had talked about it. So I popped into her head. That's why she reached out to me. So it sort of sounds like divine intervention, but I, or and some people call it manifesting and you know, all those sort of karma, whatever. To me, it's telling the world what you do and what you want to do. And then when they hear somebody who needs that, you're the first person they think of.

SPEAKER_02: 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:55

And so that was that was a huge sort of confidence boost for me because I was like, oh, I can do this. You know, there's like no going back for me now. So I'm I'm and and I I haven't, you know, once been like, oh, I wish I was back in a corporate, you know, org somewhere working, you know, the the standard schedule, doing whatever it is they asked me to do.

SPEAKER_00: 15:17

So the advice I tell them people is like, hey, listen, if you got passed over, so uh unless you got a severance package, which is a better way to do it. If you don't, uh, or another way to play it is stop caring and let them be your angel investor in whatever you're doing next. Just collect as long as possible and then still try to do a severance at some point. Like, you know, I think I'm just gonna work remote, just check out for six, seven months, and then yeah, just go build what you want to go build.

SPEAKER_01: 15:46

Yeah, I and and I could see that too, and and you know, maybe that would have been more ideal, but at the same time, in that role, I would spend so much time doing the work around the work, is what I called it. Like I wasn't actually doing the work, I was managing all the team and the people and all the other work that goes with it. I wasn't doing anything but that. And, you know, hey, look, that's what leadership is. So there's nothing wrong with that. But it was so draining in terms of my energy and and my emotional state that I just couldn't do anything else, like uh, you know, after that was done. And and I would feel so run down by the end of the day that I was like, in order to go build that thing on your own, I just was like, I can't, I I didn't have the energy to do it. Now, the other thing of that is I'm doing exactly what I used to do before. So I wouldn't have been able to go out and get clients and sign clients and have, you know, a full-time job doing that and working with these other clients. So I I agree with you. I think normally if you're going to build something, build it while you have a job and get it built out to the point where you can then like make that exit and it's already running, you're already making money for it. 100% agree with that. And at the same time, for me, I was just like, I'm just going. Now, look, I also financially had sort of built the runway. So I had the runway already built. I already had the money that I was, I was like, I can live this period of time to ramp this up and and be fine. Um, so like I said, this is something I've been thinking about doing for years. So it wasn't like I just one day woke up and was angry at the world and decided to, you know, have my Jerry McGuire moment and just, you know, burn it all down as I was going out the door. So um, yeah, but I think it's, you know, it it it was the right thing to do. It's it's been the right thing for me. And I I love the lifestyle change uh that I've had since I've done this and and have enjoyed working with different clients on different projects. So uh definitely happy with with making that move and and don't regret that for a second.

SPEAKER_00: 17:56

When you um well you got your first client, right? Did you how did the next ones come in?

SPEAKER_01: 18:02

So far, every client I've gotten has been through my network.

SPEAKER_00: 18:06

Um I LinkedIn, like emailing people, hey, this is what I do now.

SPEAKER_01: 18:09

If you need anything, uh no, honestly, it's people I I had in my network or that I've met through my network. So I use LinkedIn a lot. Um, I do talk about what I do, I do talk about you know my my business, I talk about networking. At the same time, I haven't had somebody like randomly from LinkedIn who said, Come do consulting or compensation consulting. Now, I have some other people that I do speaking engagements, I I'm uh I'm I'm building out a networking training for a uh business that is a franchise business. So people buy into the franchise and I'm gonna do some training on how they can use networking in terms of their um sales uh development or their their prospecting or how to meet clients or how to grow their business to as far as business development. So those people have come to me through through LinkedIn. But like I said, for my main consulting that I do in terms of total rewards and engagement and retention, it's been mostly the people I know. And so they know what I do. I talk to people, I reach out to them, they you know, refer people to me, they say, hey, I I know you do this. And a lot of it's been partnerships as well. And when I say partnerships, other people who, again, are in sort of adjacent functions within HR, uh, they'll be doing working on a project with a client and they're like, oh, we're at the compensation piece now. Can you come in and do that part? So um, but yeah, it's all it hasn't, I haven't done any sort of like ads or outbound marketing or any sort of that stuff. It's all just been my network and people I know.

SPEAKER_00: 19:52

Do you uh do you ever flip the script and and do the services the other way of like someone trying to negotiate better pay for the Do you do you ever help an individual, you know, get more out of their offer?

SPEAKER_01: 20:04

I I haven't done that. I know people who are, you know, similar background to me that that do that with people. Um, and I certainly wouldn't be opposed to that. I think at this, you know, a lot of times um it's kind of like how much are they gonna how much are they gonna pay you to help them negotiate?

SPEAKER_00: 20:23

I mean, they might I mean this one person I know does like a uh, you know, where's your offer? And they get whatever 10% for easy strategy to go do it. And it's a pretty quick thing, but that person, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:36

A lot of a lot of times I see that in um people who are helping others through the entire search process. And the reason why I say that is a lot of your negotiation starts with the first time you engage with that open position. Um you may not talk about numbers right there, but you're already setting the stage for what you're gonna end up with because when that first recruiter reaches out to you, they're gonna be trying to size you up and figure out what you're gonna need in order to make a move. And if you don't set yourself up right there, then you're gonna be impacted down the road. Like if you say, you know, hypothetically, if you're making a hundred grand right now and they go, well, you know, what would it get you take you to move? And you're like, well, I make a hundred grand now, they're like, well, okay, anything over a hundred grand, you might not move for less than 115, 120, because you know, you want a big pay bump, you, you know, you think the role's worth it, maybe you feel like you're underpaid. But if you've kind of set that number, uh, you you got to be careful where you set that number because otherwise, you know, they they're gonna say, okay, great, we can get this guy for maybe 110 grand. And then you come in at the end and you're like, I'd really like 120. And the the person doing the offer is like, wait a second, what what do you think? No way, right? So I don't know. That's kind of going down a tangent of that, but I think you have to be involved in a lot of the process early on. And and to help people do that, you got to coach them from the very beginning of the process.

SPEAKER_00: 22:12

Um, I think uh, you know, I've had a few where people like, you know, you know, basically tell me what I need to pay you. I'm like, tell me what the role pays. Right. So I'll throw the turret on the table and be like, yeah, I'll give them this, give them a roll. Yeah, yeah. But you're like, how about we do fractional instead? And then you don't pay with it. I would say so from a strategy, right? Um how often do you do you do you re get retained though in your business? So so do you have a transactional type of business where you're there and you're out, or or how do you how do you keep it from being the you know the highs and lows that most entrepreneurs face to the project?

SPEAKER_01: 22:49

Um, you know, there is there's some of that. And again, this is something I've been doing for about a year and a half, a little bit less than a year and a half. And so there is some of that where some of it's project-based. So it's like, here's the scope of work, here's what we're gonna have you do, here's the amount. Um, some of what I've done is uh like in that first role, I was basically half time. So, you know, 20 hours a week. And then we came up with like, you know, what is the monthly amount for that based on what I wanted to make. Um, and that's the time they got for me. Right. And so I would work that amount of time, and then I would do all the things they wanted me to do. Um, and that went on for like six months. That was just kind of like they were hiring a permanent uh person into the role. They needed somebody immediately because of the time of year it was. They needed me to jump right in and make sure the whole team ran and they got through the end of the year. And then they were spending the time to find the full-time replacement. Now, you know, every month or so they would come to me and be like, Are you sure you don't want the job? Like you could just take the job. Like you could just take the job. Well, yeah. And and, you know, I again, I was like, I don't want to do that. Like, I don't want to get into you jump back in. There's there's a there's a sense of what I've learned doing this sort of fractionally, is yes, you care about the outcomes and you want to do a good job and you want them to want to keep working with you. And there's a little bit more emotional detachment because it's like, I'm not striving for my next performance review. Like I'm not trying to be the popular person that everybody wants to work with. I'm not trying to establish my sort of like, again, reputational uh capital or credibility because I'm like, I'm just here to get you through this and do this job and do it for you.

SPEAKER_00: 24:38

And then, you know, actually they'll that's the same mindset though I've seen in most executives that you just describe, and that's where you stay longer because, like, hey, can you go to this next thing now? Because you kind of just tear a hole and you guys, that was a hole that we needed, so fix it. Yeah, it's right, yeah. And you know, look in I'm in negotiations right now with somebody around this, around some AI and marketing, and I'm like, I was you know, they're talking about the habit. I'm like, I wouldn't know why you need all that. I'd just simplify these three things and measure it. Like it seems like it's a lot of overcomplication. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 25:10

Well, right. And and when you're inside the organization, you know, everybody else who's doing all those other things are stakeholders, they have an interest in it, they have it, they want to do something. When you're coming in there and be like, we're not doing that, we don't need that. Now you're now you've got to deal with the relationships there, right? And if you're gonna stay in there, it it's almost like, you know, if if you're not developing those relationships and helping other people feel good about you being on the team, it's hard to like stay on the team and get stuff done yourself. It's almost like you get into Congress, right? And the only reason anything gets done is because they're all doing each other favors. You know, I'll vote on this, you vote on that. When you get into an organization, if you're really worried about what your peers think and how you're gonna work together, you may not give your opinion as strongly because you say, I don't really want to uh irritate these other people I'm gonna have to work with. Um it it's funny though, right?

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

Uh as a just because this is an entrepreneurial show. Yeah. Sometimes you go in, you're like, I just really want to keep that founder and that person happy because they're likely gonna leave and hire me someplace else. Yeah. I still gotta do the right thing, but I'm not worried about the employees that are gonna be working for somebody for the right. And you're like, uh we're gonna rub some feathers because they're yeah, and I hate to say that you have to take that approach sometimes because they're gonna be like, I like that. I'm gonna bring that person along with me. Do you ever get in that situation when you're like, I could fluff this a little bit to get something, opportunities down the road while still doing the right thing, but pissing off this other organization that really doesn't have any material value. I don't know. What do you uh what do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 26:49

Uh yeah, no, not I wouldn't say not really like that. I mean, I I think, you know, look, my client is ultimately the person who hired me. Um, so what that person wants me to do is sort of like, I'm gonna go drive forward on that. And to a certain extent, it's a little bit easier for them to have me go do it, right, instead of them doing it, because I come in and I say, this is what we need to do, this is how we're gonna do it. And somebody's like, well, like that's not what we've done before. I was like, Yeah, but because that's not how we're doing it anymore, here's what we're gonna do. And and you know, again, like the person who hired me doesn't, you know, if if if I if I ruffle feathers, right, they can just come to me and be like, hey, we ruffled feathers. But again, as a consultant or a fractional, you know, part of the team, I could just be like, okay, that's fine, whatever. I I don't care. I mean, I don't care. You'd say no, but it's already I don't know why for me personally, but I have felt that there's so it's so much more freedom to say that when you're not working for the company like as an employee. When you're working for them as a consultant or a contractor, I've found so much easier to be like, look, here's what you should do. I am the person who has more experience with this than anybody else who works here. This is what I've done my entire career. So here's what you should do. And they're like, we don't want to do that. I was like, fine, don't do it. Here's my invoice, right? You're still like you asked me to come in and tell you what to do. I'm telling you what to do. You say you don't want to do it. I I don't really care if you do it or not. If you're an employee, you you can't say that, right? Because then they're like, Well, we don't want you to do that, we want you to do this. And you're like, this isn't the right thing to do, but that's what you want to do. So I've got to do that because I'm employed in the organization. No win. You know, so so it's so much more freedom to be like, okay, don't do it. It's mine with me. I'm not gonna get offended. Like, I don't take any like, you know, there's no like pride of authorship here that I'm gonna be offended by it. Just don't do it then. I'll move on and go do something else. So it's almost like the, you know, I I, you know, I just again, I don't care.

SPEAKER_00: 29:07

Hate less to say that because that's like what you got away from that you had to say yes at times when you knew it was wrong. I tell you, somebody who's you know, the original show, it's on that YouTube back there, that million subscriber thinks has never been promoted. That was the original show. So I was telling you, but the point being is I got asked to leave plenty. With the alternative name I was gonna go with, it's probably LBF Peter book, asked to leave. Right, right, is because I was always okay ruffling a feather, like you know, it and I'll give you an example. In certain cultures, I worked for an Indian company, um, and I never worked in an Indian-owned company. Uh, I'm talking like uh not like local, but like these guys invented the BPO industry. And yeah, I would share my opinions on things with peers, but in that industry, if you're not Indian and you're a peer to somebody, you are less, you are not regarded. And someone who's been there longer, who is from India, has higher status in the hierarchy of that place. And you certainly don't tell your boss that they're wrong. And I would do that all the time. I was there a year and a day. Once I got I made it from my golden handcuffs, and then I was out right, right, right.

SPEAKER_01: 30:10

Well, it sounds like you you found the right spot for your uh your personality.

SPEAKER_00: 30:16

It would help them. Yeah, and the the advice I'd give to people, I try to find these reflective moments are if you find yourself not combative, no one likes combative, won't work as an entrepreneur, but you find yourself you know this is the right thing to do, but you're being told wrong, you're probably in the wrong environment or being compensated improperly for what the position is in a way that you're like, you haven't seen going on your own, but but you you need to find something else. And but to do that, that's where the networking piece happens, where you should be like trying to find people who could help you find that next thing that would appreciate your flavor, if you will. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's do me a favor, just conscious of time. Make how who should get a hold of you and where do you want them to do that?

SPEAKER_01: 30:56

Um, I hey well, I would say anybody, but I would never tell anybody that in my my work. Um, if you're thinking to yourself, I know I need to network, but I don't know where to start. I don't know anybody, I don't have time. I think networking is awkward. If you say any of those things, then you should come find me on LinkedIn. Um LinkedIn.com, Greg S. Rocher. I've got an S in my name. Or if you just search the Introverted Networker on LinkedIn, you're gonna find my profile because that's in my my headline. So I that's the name of my newsletter, the introverted networker. And I focus on teaching people who are more introverted or who know they need to network, but they don't like to do it or they've had a bad experience. I teach them a different way to make connections and grow their network without going to networking events, without doing cold outreach, sending spammy emails. There's a whole different process to it. Uh, and that's primarily what I focus on. So if you're one of the people who's like, especially like I think entrepreneurs, or if you're thinking about being an entrepreneur, you may have this great idea. Um, your network is going to be key to you getting that idea into the world. You you are not going to be able to do it without your network.

unknown: 32:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 32:16

I'll say you get started. At some point, you have to scale it and formalize it. And it's always funny. You uh Ali leave the audience with like a little inspiration. Do you remember when you got your first client that you didn't know? Someone found you was completely like they had heard it, like it was like I have no idea how this person got a hold of you, but hearing him working.

SPEAKER_01: 32:36

Well, I mean, I think there was there's been um yeah, other consultants who are people that I uh who know a consultant I know. And and so what I found for me is getting into other groups of people who do similar stuff, not exactly the same, but again, HR-related things. And I tell them what they do, and then I'll get somebody will connect me and be like, um, so-and-so told me that you do total rewards. You know, let's talk about this project. So it what I the my statement about, you know, I help everybody, but I don't help everybody. I always tell people when you're networking, you have to get very specific with who you want to be connected to. And if you have a business, you have to get very specific with what does your ideal customer say. And I say it that way because if you can think about what is the problem that your customer says, what are the words that come out of their mouth, and you tell people that, they will remember that much more than if you say, um, I teach people networking. Okay. Nobody's ever gonna walk around and be like, I need somebody who will teach networking. They're just not gonna say that. That's not a normal thing a person would say. But a person will say, Yeah, I know I need to network, but I don't have time. They'll say that all the time. So if I told somebody that, right, or I hate it, it's awkward. I don't want to go to a networking event.

SPEAKER_00: 34:04

I'd rather delete all social media. I say this all the time. There's a certain number you can put in my bank account, and I will delete everything that day.

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

Yeah. And if I tell people that, like I just told the people listening to this, if you hear somebody say, I know I need to network, but I don't have time, you're going to remember that statement. And when somebody says it almost verbatim, you're going to think, there's this guy that was on the show. His name's Greg Rocher or Roach, or I don't know how do you pronounce his name, but he does this new newsletter thing. Anyway, you got to talk to this guy, right? Go find this guy because that's exactly what he does. If you have a business of any kind, you have to tell people what your customers say and how they describe the problem that they have in their own words. And when you can put that out into the world, right? And again, we talked about manifesting or karma or divine intervention. That's how that happens. When you put that in the world with enough people, people will start to find you because they will hear other people say, Oh, I talked to this person, they said you're the person to do this. So I would say that's a big thing that I find people struggle with. People struggle to say, here's what my ideal customer says and the problems that they describe. Um, but once they get down to that, it makes it so much easier for them to find people to connect with and for people to connect to them. Right. So people will, I call it putting opportunity scouts into the world. You're basically telling everybody, and then they come to you.

SPEAKER_00: 35:33

Do you do uh one one thing I I found the other day, and my wife just got a sentence passing it and it occurred to me is because first of all, you're getting the right network. I want to come back to that. Super important. I actually uh run an automation that's removing 25,000 now connections, connections from LinkedIn. So I've you hit the 30,000 limit. I'm actually removing 25,000 I find not relevant anymore. And that's a lot in LinkedIn. That's like, what? I mean, yeah, my poison's going up, but I'm replacing it with my focus, which is founders in Atlanta. I only need about 30 clients that have a really good business. There's about 3,500 within 10 miles of me. I need about 1% they need to talk to, right? And so the point is I'm replacing it with that. And only other uh founders like you who people know in the podcast, people who are relevant, who will check out my stuff because we've had an interaction. I cannot tell you how important that is not to do vanity metrics. So you're so spot on with that. The other thing my wife said in passing, I'll leave everyone with this. She said, Hey, do you just have you ever emailed your, you know, DM email, but DM'd your first connections to tell them what you do? And I was like, No. I know, right? Right point on um, yeah, that is truly the example. Yeah, the forest and don't see the trees. I go, I'm removing a lot of them. She's like, you should message them first. I'm like, no. I go, because they those that group's not gonna have anything to do. Sure. And I go, but I'm still you know, I was like, that's a great point. Is I need to set up a campaign mass is done, say, hey, I just removed 20,000 connections and you remained. And I will know what I that I have to do that.

SPEAKER_01: 37:08

Yeah, and and um I've seen, you know, I've seen that in in sort of post version, you know, people who either run newsletters or podcasts. And I will ask my audience every once in a while, I'll just do a poll and it's like, did you know I have a weekly newsletter? You know, yes, I'm subscribed, no, love to subscribe, no, don't care. Uh, you know, delete something else, you know. Well, and I'm I talk about my newsletter all the time. So I think everybody knows about it, but people will be like, no, I didn't know you had one, right? Which of course is like go subscribe. But you know, if you have a YouTube channel, you have a podcast, you know, any of those things, if you keep asking your audience, a lot of the times they're like, I didn't even know. Because you post all the time. I mean, I I I don't I post all the time, right? I know what I post, I know what I put out there, I know what I'm doing. But most people, to most people, you are a three or four seconds out of their day that they scrolled past your post. Oh, if that and that that's that's all you are, right? And and so that's the hard thing, I think, with LinkedIn or any sort of sort of social media stuff, which is where to your point, like DMing, getting to have conversations, talking to people in real life is really where the opportunities come from.

SPEAKER_00: 38:29

It right. Definitely people are going back in real life. Um, you know, the other thing I'll leave you with LinkedIn too, specifically, you you know, I've seen this more and more because we we run lead generation for billion dollar companies to solopreneurs like us, right? So I've I have two main ICPs, which are the solopreneur and then uh the marketer one or the CMO who needs like help, right? Um one thing I see in all those DM pieces specifically is if they don't have their entire profile around a core central problem, critical problem, they solve in the terms you just describe it. So when for us, when people say, I need IAI marketing that actually works, that delivers, that's something people say, I'm our AI marketing, our marketing, I don't, it's not doing anything different. So we're like, well, that's what we do. But when someone goes um on the other side of that, like, hey, I do that, and then you answer about the eight to 12 questions that people are searching for in SEO around that, and that's all your contents around, people will find you on that because it starts showing up, they start seeing it and it becomes repetition. And here's the cool thing it's not no LinkedIn profiles, Joe Rogan, or some kind of cool thing. Yeah, you need to repeat stuff every like eight weeks because you're just gonna catch them in a cycle of when they need it, and they may follow you for some part of that cycle and then come with you. You don't overcomplicate it either. So, anyway, I just leave people with that. It's really not that difficult. You just gotta be repetitive and consistent with it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:47

Yeah, I I'm not that great at it myself, but I will tell you it's no, and I mean I think uh around content on you know, because people always when people start out, they always struggle because they're like, What am I gonna post? What am I gonna say? What content am I gonna do? I was like, Well, what's your like three or four core messages or things that you put out there? Just keep doing that. And they're like, but people are gonna be like, hey, you repeated this. And I'm like, okay, first off, I mean, you watch commercials every time you sit down to watch a game, you see the same commercial over the course of the game. You don't get mad at the brand for having the same commercial. You're like, oh well, whatever, it's the same commercial. I'd I scroll past people's stuff. What do I scroll past people's stuff all the time? And I'd like I've read that message from them before. Uh, I don't think I've ever unfollowed somebody because I was like, oh, I've seen that message before. You just don't. You go, okay, well, whatever, that's what they talk about. And then it's like you don't want a white minivan until you're looking to shop for one.

SPEAKER_00: 40:43

Then you see white minivans everywhere. Same thing works here. Sure. Yeah, 100%. It's like I don't need uh networking help until I'm out of a job and go, oh my god, how do I network better? And all of a sudden your your post became super relevant, and then they're so glad you repeated it.

SPEAKER_01: 40:56

Yeah. So yeah, I it's it's a thing, it's definitely a mental shift to get over when you're starting to put stuff out in the world that you think I've got to create something new every single day. You might have to put a little different spin on it or you say it a little differently, but the core point is the same. You don't have to come up with something new all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 41:16

That core point isn't it's let's I'm gonna leave with that. Uh just listen, you know. I want people to download the show. So if we go too long, they won't do it because I'll be competing at the Netflix show at this point. Um, but we're gonna cut this one down. Uh, you know, we try to cut our audio moving forward about seven minutes so people can come see the full interview and learn a bit more about you. But yeah, where should you know if they made at this point in the show, you guys rock, where should they come once again to get a hold of you or what should they where should they go?

SPEAKER_01: 41:39

Yeah, I mean, I think the best thing is is LinkedIn. I mean, everything that I do uh branches off of that. So again, my name is Greg Rocher, Greg S. Rocher. If you're if you're typing it in the the link and the introverted networker, you can find about what out what I do for workplaces to help with you know engagement, retention, that kind of stuff. If you're interested in networking and you need to grow your network, I focus there as well. So you can get to my newsletter, any of my courses, my book, any of that kind of stuff is is straight there. So that's a good place to start to learn a little bit about me and you know, connect and say hey, send me a message and happy to talk to you. Awesome. Thank you so much, by the way.

SPEAKER_00: 42:21

Great for taking a few moments with me today. Appreciate it. Yep. Thanks. Great to be here. And listen, anyone who made it this far on the show, uh you do rock, get out there, go cut a tie to whatever's holding you back. Uh define your success. Don't let it be someone else's, or it will be very empty when you get there and you'll be right back where you are right now, which is I need to define my own success. So thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. Cheers.