SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Cut the Tie Podcast. Hello, I am your host, Thomas Helprick, and I'm on a mission to help you cut the tie to all this shit holding you back. That's right. From success that you define for yourself. And if you don't define it for yourself, please do because you're chasing someone else's dream otherwise. But uh today I'm joined by Brian Carmedy. Brian, how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 0:16

Good, Thomas. Great, great to be here. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 0:20

You're just taking time out of your day. I know you're super busy with your world, but take a moment, introduce yourself, who you are, where you're from, and what it is you do great.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Thank you. Yeah. No, I'm uh I'm hailing from Massachusetts right now. And um I'm the director of finance and northeast development for renewed developers. Uh, we're an energy and data center property developer.

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

So can you can you uh explain what that is to us who aren't in the industry?

SPEAKER_01: 0:44

Oh yeah. So uh basically we get um we we go out and find land and get it approved and permitted to create on-site power uh to power the data centers where all of our apps live on our iPhones. Let's put it that way. You know, all the AI stuff, but sure, even um all the apps and all, you know, your financial advisors, your your banks, your insurance companies, they're all streaming, you know, information into the cloud and um and even into some AI type models nowadays. And those that those computers are housed in data centers, and that's why there's such a boom in them right now because it's just you know exponential growth and how we all use computers and technology every day.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30

Right. I don't think people realize this, and I'll probably say it wrong so you can correct me, but uh uh my understanding is the you need you know proximity, uh you need uh you need obviously horsepower and cooling power, and that takes energy. Uh and you got to do it in a way that's not so expensive that it drives the price of everything else that we're on it. So you so where you guys find it, some sometimes unique places to get right. You guys have to well, you can talk about that me a little bit too like you know, you break that up better than I did.

SPEAKER_01: 2:00

Sure. No, no, but you actually you I mean, as a guy from outside the industry, you know, you just really nailed it. Um so uh there's a lot of uh on the front page of the news, right, is the big bad data center that comes to your town and then takes up all the energy off the grid and drives up the price of power for, you know, mom and pop on on Sugar Bush Lane or whatever, right? So um, and that's that has been happening, right? So, and I I develop the properties in the sense that what I do is we're trying to get ahead of that that tidal wave that's coming across the country and do it in a way that is uh much softer on the communities. Uh in fact, our when we prepare land for a data center to come in and lease ground from us, we actually uh set it up so that the the data center is providing more or giving more to that community than taking. Let me explain why, because it's not obvious. Uh, number one, we like to try to power these things with a waste to energy plant. So basically, we solve a couple of problems at once. Um we set up a plant where we take waste, uh like municipal solid waste, we lower the cost or the price of that waste hauling for for the city, for the municipality. So we we help the taxpayer there. Um, we take the trash and turn it into this synthetic renewable gas. And the gas then turns into uh electricity, which powers the data center on site. And then from there, we're not even done. We have a co-located hydroponic farm and we put these in a uh a 40-foot tractor trailer like container, a freight container. And that 40-foot container hydro farm uh creates five tons of food per year. Um, you know, so you can and you can do it anywhere, you can put it anywhere, and it grows all year. So, you know, in zero degree weather in Connecticut, the local community can get you know fresh spinach and fresh kale right from the community, you know, instead of trucking it from Florida or Atlanta or you know, Georgia, Texas, whatever. So um, which has lots of benefits as well. So it's like this cert, you know, you can see the circle. We take the trash, we turn it into gas, which turns it into electricity, which feeds the data center, which creates the food. And what we do with that food is we donate most of it to um local food banks um and charities and and that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

So that's a great value proposition for getting the right, you know, the whoever's in office to get a win on all fronts.

SPEAKER_01: 4:45

I think so. And it's been working. So you you hit that you run the head. It's like, and we're huge on giving other people the credit, you know what I mean? Like the politicians and everybody, just like, hey, you want to look good, don't you know, donate the you know, you can claim credit for setting up the whole thing. You can claim credit for even the the donations, the charitable donations out of them.

SPEAKER_00: 5:06

You know, uh do you guys do uh I know we're getting the weeds a little, and this seems curious, is why I'm asking, but uh, do you do uh do you allow the the the city or the municipality to share in some of the profits to offset tax?

SPEAKER_01: 5:21

So they the way they win on taxes is we pretty much I actually didn't even say this, a lot of times we take properties that have been blighted or are called brownfields, you know, like a an old, ugly gas station or something like that, right? That has been shut down, run down, nope, and there's no, they're not collecting any taxes off of that stuff. So we've turned a few of those already into um uh you know revenue producing properties, you know. So they they win big time when we come into town and and create properties that can actually pay serious taxes.

SPEAKER_00: 5:56

Uh how much space do you need? Like what's the footprint?

SPEAKER_01: 6:00

So the smallest one we've done is about an acre and a half, and we've got some larger ones that are um up in the 20-acre range. And um obviously we can do different size, you know, larger data centers and larger power creation on the larger where there's more space. And we can put more farms on on the places where they have more space as well, too. So um, so that's another thing. Like on a property, right? We at the bigger properties, we sometimes put five of those hydroponic farms on there on one property, not you know, not just one. So that that particular property produces 25 tons of of greens, you know, for the year. So it's pretty cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:44

It is because the soil is getting so whatever. Uh if you can control that, you don't need pesticides as big exactly. Or control the water with actual better nutrients and other things that would hopefully retrieve from the plants more like probably how they were 100 years ago, than that our bodies are more adapt to than whatever it is today.

SPEAKER_01: 7:05

Yeah, it's a pretty clean way to farm. And um, you know, interesting fact, it's uh that 400 square foot hydroponic farm that produces five tons right per year, that the equivalent, if you were gonna do the farm out on the ground traditionally, would take you four and a half acres. So, you know, we're doing it in four and a half square feet, you know, the same yield. And um, and you're right, it's cleaner too, no pesticides and all that. And what we do is we run the so the AI data center, right? So AI does doesn't just do a steady demand of power. It goes up when it runs the model and then it drive dips down during the day and up and down. So when it's dipping down, we're still producing power. So we can send the power over to the uh the farm where they can store it in in a battery and and use it around the clock. Uh so we do that. We do the we capture the waste heat that comes off of our generators and we send that to the farm. And we also do stormwater capture and we recycle that in the data center for chilling as well as send it to the farm.

SPEAKER_00: 8:10

So we're uh would be crazy one day we could just capture a lightning bolt into a battery.

SPEAKER_01: 8:16

I know. Just send it up there, right? Why not?

SPEAKER_00: 8:20

I mean, like the power grid problem solved. Oh, here we go. Like Florence is getting in a sweet. We're good for a month. I think I mean work bolt of lightning is like all of New York's requirements for a day. I think we're actually and like you gotta be able to capture that. There's gotta be a way to do that. There's gotta be. It's definitely doable. Let's just leave that.

unknown: 8:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 8:43

Tell me about your journey into this. How did you become part of this journey?

SPEAKER_01: 8:47

Thanks. So uh let's see, it's uh I there's one theme that kind of went uh led me through my career. Um back in the mid-90s, I was uh an army officer. And um one of the best things that my first mentor in the army taught me was he was Colonel, he said, Brian, whenever you're asked for X, give X plus one. You know, it's kind of that little math equation, right? But it's like the the concept of always provide more than what people have asked you for at work, right? So it's really served me well. So after four years doing that, I got a job um with Pfizer as a salesperson, pharmaceutical rep. And uh back in the heyday around like 1999, 2000, all that. Awesome experience. I got to, I felt like I I hit the lottery um because I I got this job that you know was one of the few companies still that you know just poured so much money into our training and and everything, and and the perks were great and the you know, pension, you know, retirement plan and everything. It was just incredible. And a lot of companies were getting away from that. So I was like, wow, I'm set for life. This is great. Four years later, I was just like, I wasn't challenged anymore. I was bored. And uh I so the kind of the theme is I I I shrunk, I you know, I I took a risk and and cut the tie, so to speak, from from the big cushy Fortune 50 company, right? And I went to work for a smaller regional office furniture company um and in distribution, and it only because I I wanted to get closer to customers and and do a little bit more in a smaller company. And I happened to work for them because I was at dinner one night with a friend and she said, you know, office furniture, it's not that sexy, but I've worked for some great people, you know. And I said, Well, all right, that sounds that sounds pretty cool. So I uh I needed a change and I went and did that. So I did that for 12 years and got promoted throughout there and everything, but then um made some connections with with vendors, manufacturers, vendors um for that company. And um again, I got I kind of stood out to one of the manufacturers and they said, Hey, we're we could really use you. Would you come work for us? We'll give you an equity equity stake in the company, run the company as president and grow it from they were at the time just a regional New England player and they wanted to go national. So they said, with your experience, you know, we we could use your help. They were kind of from outside of the industry, even though they had this, you know, they were running a manufacturing company, they were still, you know, they wanted my expertise to come in. So I, you know, I took that. I was like, I was kind of burnt out where I was, and I was like, oh, this sounds like another great, great place. But again, I went to a smaller company. And each time I went to one of these smaller companies, I literally took a pay cut. Um, like, you know, I just did. And but I I it was worth it to me because it was the challenge and the mission and everything. So um, the experience that was ahead of me. But also the reward was better too. So even though I kind of cut off myself from that comfort level, you know, fat cushion, right? Uh the the incentive packages were better, so to speak, right? So then I'm doing that for a while, no, 10 years, and uh I happened to um be getting into real estate investing, and I and I um made a connection to my current uh partner in the in the company, and um he was actually on a podcast. I literally pulled over from work one night and found him, found his company during as I'm listening to his interview and tracked him down and called him up and I said, Hey, I got an idea for you. And uh he's we just hit it off from there. And it started off, you know, like oh my gosh, this is neat. Let's just let's just talk, you know, as things do. But uh over uh a year or so, we we really just started gelling together and liking um to work together and knew we could work well together. So now it's like we're full into this, you know, greening the data center tidal wave kind of thing and and make it a you know a better situation for people. So we're just all in on the mission.

SPEAKER_00: 13:00

So great. It's uh it's cool stuff. I mean, because it's it's like you know, in the in the moment needed, does good, serves a purpose better. That it's there. I mean, like I'm sure there's downsides too. What are your uh what are your naysayers? What are their what are the legitimate ones, not the ones they make up because of competitive or something else. But what's the what's the legitimate concern?

SPEAKER_01: 13:22

With what we're doing right now. Um the pushback is you know, if we get some, it's typically just in certain states there are um people who kind of run the environmental type um agencies within the state, right? And they're they influence the permitting and so forth of what kind of technologies you can use to create power. So there are some that are just so um they're so extreme with their power generation, like no more emissions. Oil. Yeah, like no, they they they they like they won't let they they're afraid of that stuff, right? And and we actually we don't use coal and oil, but we do use natural gas. And um it's endless. They don't want to hear it. They it's like if it's not solar or wind farm, then they they're like that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

I mean, like in the northeast. You spend like a billion dollars to get something that produces enough like 15 ohms. It's like it's okay. I'm I'm making up the numbers, but I know it it's the ratio to cost, there's no ROI. The only ROI payoff was the person getting the lease payment because the government said we'll give you extra money to put this thing up.

SPEAKER_01: 14:32

Yeah, like you're there's some math formula that it only works because there was an incentive, there was a supplement or it doesn't, it's long been established that the it neither of those industries work if without government credits and support. So um, but in a real sense though, aside from even the cost, you cannot run critical infrastructure like data centers or hospitals on a cloudy day or uh there's no wind blow. It's like you can't do that. You need natural gas right now. And so we're building that out and we use generators that can use natural gas today, but can also you can flip a switch and start filling that thing with uh renewable natural gas or hydrogen down the road. I'm telling you right now, those distribution channels are not built out. We've got projects in I went looking for them. No one can deliver any of that to me. So, uh regardless of price. So it's just not it's not built out. So we do are we are in an energy transition where we need to use natural gas at least for now. Um, and even that is still cleaner. I mean, we are reducing emissions compared to diesel generators, which is the old standard.

SPEAKER_00: 15:41

So I mean you're you're well it's a much more complicated formula than that because you're reducing farm needs and some other things, which create, you know, you know, there's there's a bunch of it's a that's a quantum equation, right? With with some some qualitative and quantitative pieces that I wouldn't understand, but and there's another there. Um tell me about something with your with your company, maybe what's the the company, what's what's your occurring biggest you know, metaphoric tie you guys need to cut to be successful? Or the one you're struggling with you just won't do, but you know.

SPEAKER_01: 16:12

No, ooh. Um, well, let me uh the first thing that came to my mind was um cutting ties to the grid, to the utility. So we um definitely try to do all of our projects behind the meter, which means behind the meter means we don't need the utility grid to connect to. Um we can create the power with either our our waste of energy plant or with natural gas coming from the pipeline to fuel our generators and create power. And that's important because across the country, if you want to build a new building and apply to the utility grid to con for a connect interconnection agreement, you're gonna be told you're gonna wait in line for five years before you can get up and running. And there's, I mean, what business can survive that?

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

You know, uh something in the government, that's about it.

SPEAKER_01: 17:01

Yeah, right. So we're chanting, and that's like every state across the country. It's a it's a crisis right now, it really is. So we're cutting the tie away. We're trying to get people to understand that you gotta stop relying on the grid. And there's this thought process that they don't trust anything else but the grid, only because the grid's been around forever. But I mean, we've known, we've all known that the grid is subject to brownouts for you know, since the 70s and 80s. I mean, there's it's not reliable. So, you know, it's just funny how people, um, human beings have trouble thinking, you know, getting away from their comfort zone. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_00: 17:40

Well, it doesn't affect me, right? We were in we went to Cuba last year to you know check it out, never been there. Yeah, no alignment politically. I'm just saying we went there to check it out and did locals and support them. And uh and they had an entire country blackout except for the hotel we were in, which ran on its own generators because the that hotel allowed Americans to be there or pay there, and it was a family-owned thing that wasn't owned by the government somehow. I did not know how it's on that, but the point is they had their own generators, and look at that, they had power, and it's like maybe anyway. But I I see it because it's just so fragile. Like, oh, something went wrong at the dam. Holds whole country's down now. I think Guatanamo Bay was fine too, by the way. I think they have their own country. It's probably nuclear, to be fair. But um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

Yeah, they even have yeah, but they're definitely no, the government's gonna make sure their stuff is running, especially a prison.

SPEAKER_00: 18:37

And they're they do research, I'm sure, about their answer. But yeah, uh little thing we're gonna show apart, but let me answer this as a final question of a little what's the question that people aren't asking that they should be.

SPEAKER_01: 18:57

You know, the I think well, in our business, it's in the the industry, people should be asking, you know, what is the tell me what you know is the bigger picture overall total cost of of ownership, so to speak. So for example, just getting past the the buzzwords and the headlines of, you know, we don't use solar, we don't use wind, you know, and and and then instead of just jumping to, oh, it must be natural gas, which is a fossil fuel, well, you know, ask me how much emissions we're actually saving with our generator. You know, we used a specific type of generator with even with natural gas, cuts down emissions dramatically. And then we're doing other things like waste of energy where we're creating no emissions and also solving the trash problem. And you know what I mean? So, you know, just taking some time to to really learn about it and not jump to conclusions right away is you know, what we all need to do that more anyway, right? in all parts of our life. But that's mostly what we're up against.

SPEAKER_00: 20:04

It's just the presumption of uh propaganda media or whatever else.

SPEAKER_01: 20:09

Projecting the energy side of their uh are you seen as who are you seen as a threat to um you know uh really uh bad policy it's not so much certain groups or whatever I mean like I said there are some people who are extremists in the sense that you know no more drops of fossil fuels at all uh starting yesterday which is impossible but um but there's people like that but other than that it's it's policy and just educating um legislatures on well look here's the problems that you guys have people are complaining about how expensive their power is companies are either coming to you to put up data centers or worse they're blowing right past your state because some the state next to you has better incentives and you guys are going to completely miss the whole AI economy. You know so like just teaching them about the the policy that makes it safer for developers to invest in these projects to help them grow. Because and there we need that risk protection because um you know we are the ones who are putting millions of dollars on the line to grow something. So if you change a policy a year later you know on a project that takes us three or four years to build out that's like whoa you know that's it's bad news you know if if you pull the rug out from under us while we're while we've got millions of dollars invested to try to you know grow your state.

SPEAKER_00: 21:41

So that's amazing. So who should get a hold of you in in like you know what's what's the uh ideal person that would you know investor or buyer or who who would it be thanks um you know any company uh I always start with the the people who need the rack space in a in a data center.

SPEAKER_01: 21:59

So anybody who works for a company you know it's not just a tech company it could be you know a big insurance company or whatever anybody who's kind of grow outgrowing their their rack space and want to talk to us about getting into um one of our co-location centers where we typically charge less than the the grid does by the way for power um that would be awesome um any kind of private equity company that wants to get more into um investing and financing in these data centers and our whole chain of of sustainability that's great we've got some of those but I'm always interested in talking to more um and we're doing a big push on um college campuses too and helping them become zero waste campuses by taking their trash putting it into our waste energy plant and then powering their school operations but also even building a small data center for them on their campus. So they get again a couple of wins they get to do some AI research some more you know attracting students and the top professors because they're waste energy and they've got AI going on and all this kind of stuff. So we've got a good package that helps them market well.

SPEAKER_00: 23:12

So when you when you say waste I know you talk about but what kinds of waste can you use?

SPEAKER_01: 23:17

Uh great question almost almost anything really um all all of the stuff in municipal solid waste is fine. We can even do like old tires like if there's an old junkyard with tires we can take that by you know tons. We can even use medical waste um it's a little harder to get permitting for us to you know and again that could be a big help if we can continue to educate municipalities to say look I know it still sounds a little scary that somebody's going to come in and and take in be a become a magnet for medical waste right but let me teach you how what we do. You know it doesn't sit around on the ground anywhere. We put it right to work and it gets converted into gas right away. So um you know we can really change we can do that for less than what hospitals are paying now which who doesn't want their hospital to be in better financial shape right so we can help with that you know yeah I got more questions but I'll do them offline with you just conscious of time.

SPEAKER_00: 24:15

Brian thanks for jumping on I appreciate you you know connecting with me again here a few years ago but uh thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 24:20

Thomas this is awesome thank you you're great host by the way you're gonna make me blush what you don't know is that I spilled something all over my pants today and I have no pants on right now.

SPEAKER_00: 24:31

That's that's a true statement. Thank you. Anyone who made it this point thank you for uh for listening and and if you've been here before you know what I always say uh get out there go cut a tie to whatever's holding you back from your dream your success uh but define those dreams and that success yourself so when you get there you know it's yours. Thanks for listening